X Plaid Dead in Garage and Supermarket Parking Lot with Plenty of Charge

[generalmilk]

This is for my friend's 5 month old Model X Plaid.

Yesterday, the car just died in his garage. Last driven 3 days ago with 285mi left and connected to a wall outlet. Phone key, remote key, buttons on car and connected charger couldn't wake the car at all. He had planned a 4 hour trip last night so he called Tesla service. Tesla service sent a tow truck to pick up the car. The tow truck company's technicians jumpstarted the Model X and had some fun accelerations with my friend. Since my friend needed the car for the travel he didn't let the car towed, but booked an appointment on Monday instead. Tesla told him the next time the car gets stranded he has to pay for the tow, which I find ridiculous since it is not my friend's fault such as running out of the battery.

My friend usually let the sentry mode on all the time and he just turned it off a few days ago so the car went to sleep. We suspect the 12v battery or dc-dc convertor might have been faulty for unknown amount of time. He turned on the sentry mode to keep the car awake, and did the 4 hour trip without problem.

Today he went to a supermarket and the car just died again in the parking lot after parked for one hour. Tesla was firm on charging him for the 2nd tow and suggested him to use AAA. Right now he is waiting for his insurance company to get to him and jumpstart the car. He realized that unfortunately, sentry mode turned itself off in the morning due to the low battery (60mi left). This is a developing story.

update: Insurance company has dispatched a guy and jumpstarted the Model X

 

[henderrj]

Maybe just a defective 12 volt battery? It's a little odd because they now use lithium ion rather than lead acid batteries. They should last for many years. But, if it was defective from the start, that would explain it. Obviously the DC to DC converter could be the issue too. Keep us informed, this is interesting!

 

[generalmilk]

Made a correction in the main post, the sentry mode turned off due to low battery (<20%). This could have been prevented if he charged the car to a higher soc last night. But he only has wall outlet at home, and it only added 15 miles after he got home after midnight due to all the delays yesterday.

 

[MP3Mike]

Tesla service sent a tow truck to pick up the car. The tow truck company's technicians jumpstarted the Model X and had some fun accelerations with my friend. Since my friend needed the car for the travel he didn't let the car towed, but booked an appointment on Monday instead. Tesla told him the next time the car gets stranded he has to pay for the tow, which I find ridiculous since it is not my friend's fault such as running out of the battery.

It seems reasonable to me. His car had a failure and Tesla paid for a tow truck to go pick it up. He refused to let them take the car to be repaired. So now when it suffers from the same problem again Tesla shouldn't have to pay for a second tow truck. (Which maybe he would do the same thing, oh they got it going, don't take it I'll just drive it some more.)

And look, exactly what Tesla thought would happen, happened:

Today he went to a supermarket and the car just died again in the parking lot after parked for one hour. Tesla was firm on charging him for the 2nd tow and suggested him to use AAA.

Technically, I think that Tesla could refuse to honor the warranty for the repair, because he refused the repair the first time:

I've never heard of Tesla actually doing that, but they likely could.

 

[generalmilk]

I’d agree with you if Tesla provided a loaner vehicle at the time of towing and promised to cover all the inconvenience caused by this almost brand new vehicle.

It would be rich for tesla to refuse honoring warranty due to their own vehicle defect and lack of standard on service provided.

 

[generalmilk]

Update: The mobile service had to reschedule the appointment to Thursday since there are a few more things need to be checked. My friend asked if he can send the car to the service center and get it fixed sooner and they agreed. They said if it’s the 12v battery issue, it could be fixed in 20 minutes. Turned out to be wrong. Apparently the estimate was for Lead Acid 12v, and they only realized it has a Li-ion after opening up the frunk. They had to give my friend a loaner Model X instead.

The service center is in Palo Alto. I don’t think the plaids are too rare there. I’m a bit speechless for them had no idea that the car has newer 12v.

 

[henderrj]

Update: The mobile service had to reschedule the appointment to Thursday since there are a few more things need to be checked. My friend asked if he can send the car to the service center and get it fixed sooner and they agreed. They said if it’s the 12v battery issue, it could be fixed in 20 minutes. Turned out to be wrong. Apparently the estimate was for Lead Acid 12v, and they only realized it has a Li-ion after opening up the frunk. They had to give my friend a loaner Model X instead.

The service center is in Palo Alto. I don’t think the plaids are too rare there. I’m a bit speechless for them had no idea that the car has newer 12v.

Wow, that does not speak well of Tesla's service training system.

It also indicates that service people are no longer living tesla. It used to be they had read everything in these forums and anywhere else about every new vehicle and every new feature. I think the allure of being in the Tesla world is dimming. They are not selling the mission to the people who work for them as well as they used to. Or maybe the focus on the mission has been eclipsed by the desire to make money and gain success.

It may be time for Tesla to start advertising. One of the main goals of advertisement is to encourage employees, to emphasize the viability and excitement of the company.

 

[generalmilk]

Update: My friend checked his app last night and found out the car was no longer in service mode. It also received FSD beta update. He was waiting for the beta for a long time, betting they might have fixed it, he bit the bullet and initiated the update. Then he lost connection to the car after installation was at 100%. Guess it was still not fixed and reboot has killed it again.

 

[jboy210]

Update: My friend checked his app last night and found out the car was no longer in service mode. It also received FSD beta update. He was waiting for the beta for a long time, betting they might have fixed it, he bit the bullet and initiated the update. Then he lost connection to the car after installation was at 100%. Guess it was still not fixed and reboot has killed it again.

It's not really a good idea to be doing things with the vehicle when it is in the shop. I thought Tesla did some sort of Geo-fencing to prevent this.

 

[sorka]

This makes no sense. The S/X has not run the cars systems on the 12 volt battery when in standby for years. The vehicle systems not involved with the power train run off the standby circuit from the main battery. The 12 volt battery is only used when the main battery has completely shut down so that you can still run emergency blinkers, gain access to the vehicle, open and start charging, etc. This is why the 12 volt battery was finally switch to lithium ion and is only kept 50% charged so that it will last 10+ years since it isn't cycled like the 12 volt lead acid batteries were when the main battery contactors came on every 4 to 6 hours to recharge it.

You can remove the 12 volt battery and as long as your main battery isn't dead, everything will still work fine.

 

[henderrj]

This makes no sense. The S/X has not run the cars systems on the 12 volt battery when in standby for years. The vehicle systems not involved with the power train run off the standby circuit from the main battery. The 12 volt battery is only used when the main battery has completely shut down so that you can still run emergency blinkers, gain access to the vehicle, open and start charging, etc. This is why the 12 volt battery was finally switch to lithium ion and is only kept 50% charged so that it will last 10+ years since it isn't cycled like the 12 volt lead acid batteries were when the main battery contactors came on every 4 to 6 hours to recharge it.

You can remove the 12 volt battery and as long as your main battery isn't dead, everything will still work fine.

As your posts have always been well researched, I'm assuming you are correct. But is it just for the newer cars? I didn't think mine used the main battery unless the car was actually on. Was this a software change?

 

[sorka]

As your posts have always been well researched, I'm assuming you are correct. But is it just for the newer cars? I didn't think mine used the main battery unless the car was actually on. Was this a software change?

Not a software change but a battery change post-Q2-2015 that allows the low voltage components to run directly off the battery.
Tagging @wk057 for any corrections.

 

[jjrandorin]

Update: My friend checked his app last night and found out the car was no longer in service mode. It also received FSD beta update. He was waiting for the beta for a long time, betting they might have fixed it, he bit the bullet and initiated the update. Then he lost connection to the car after installation was at 100%. Guess it was still not fixed and reboot has killed it again.

All this thread totally reads like " My friend" (air quotes / wink). I am wondering why you are reporting on all the "trials and tribulations" of "your friend".

 

[generalmilk]

All this thread totally reads like " My friend" (air quotes / wink). I am wondering why you are reporting on all the "trials and tribulations" of "your friend".

You think it’s mine experience? Oh, how I wish I have an X Plaid. I got his permission to share this just to help someone (hopefully not) with similar experience in the future. Car randomly dead can be scary.

 

[mxnym]

I’d agree with you if Tesla provided a loaner vehicle at the time of towing and promised to cover all the inconvenience caused by this almost brand new vehicle.

It would be rich for tesla to refuse honoring warranty due to their own vehicle defect and lack of standard on service provided.

I don't think Tesla's warranty states that they have to provide a loaner at all, so I'm not sure how the fact that they don't provide one during roadside assistance/towing is relevant to agreeing about what a legal document says. I agree that it sucks not getting a loaner in that situation (been there, done that), but as much as I prefer to work with a manufacturer or dealer who provides loaners, I don't think there is anything standard, written, or legal implying that a loaner must be provided.

 

[generalmilk]

I don't think Tesla's warranty states that they have to provide a loaner at all, so I'm not sure how the fact that they don't provide one during roadside assistance/towing is relevant to agreeing about what a legal document says. I agree that it sucks not getting a loaner in that situation (been there, done that), but as much as I prefer to work with a manufacturer or dealer who provides loaners, I don't think there is anything standard, written, or legal implying that a loaner must be provided.

It has nothing to do with warranty, it’s about Tesla’s product and service. I never said the warranty should cover providing loaner.

Now the car is in service center for repair, and my friend do get a loaner. The issue seems to be more complex than a simple 12v swap.

 

[generalmilk]

Not a software change but a battery change post-Q2-2015 that allows the low voltage components to run directly off the battery.
Tagging @wk057 for any corrections.

I don’t have S/X but when my Y goes to sleep, the main battery is disconnected. So S/X is different?

The first two times this X plaid was dead were all during sleep, so I simply assumed the car was dead when main battery was disconnected and 12v was powering the system.

The third time was during software update in service center. Since Teslas disable software update when the system detects 12v battery issue, I also assume they need the 12v to support the system at some point during updates, and that’s when this X plaid dead, which obviously couldn’t detect this specific 12v issue.

 

[sorka]

FYI, my MY loaner is in my app as if it were mine. I was able to add a phone key and a key fob.
Next for the loaner program is to download profiles and settings when the loaner is added to your account.

 

[sorka]

I don’t have S/X but when my Y goes to sleep, the main battery is disconnected. So S/X is different?

The first two times this X plaid was dead were all during sleep, so I simply assumed the car was dead when main battery was disconnected and 12v was powering the system.

The third time was during software update in service center. Since Teslas disable software update when the system detects 12v battery issue, I also assume they need the 12v to support the system at some point during updates, and that’s when this X plaid dead, which obviously couldn’t detect this specific 12v issue.

Not sure about the 3/Y, but the S/X has a dc circuit straight to the battery that is always on even when the main contactors are disengaged. This is why on Q2+ 2015 S/X (X is 2016+) you can remove the 12v battery entirely and everything will stay on.

 

[generalmilk]

Not sure about the 3/Y, but the S/X has a dc circuit straight to the battery that is always on even when the main contactors are disengaged. This is why on Q2+ 2015 S/X (X is 2016+) you can remove the 12v battery entirely and everything will stay on.

That’s very interesting. Could they changed it in refresh since they think the Li-ion battery is more reliable? Or there is more complicated issue on this car.