X to Y 'down'grade?

[DeejUK]

Has anyone here gone from a Model X to a Model Y? If so, how did you find the switch?

I've got a 2017 Model X 90D, 6 seats, with Enhanced Autopilot, CCS adapter and free Supercharging. The finance agreement came to an end before the Y was available, so I paid off the rest (about £51k) and kept the car.

I've ordered a Model Y Performance for about £71k, which I was hoping would be showing up soon, but might be delayed until the end of the year. I figured if I was going to downgrade, I might as well get something that goes faster

The X was paid off using a directors loan, and I need to pay that back by the end of the year otherwise there'll be ~40% tax to pay on it, which will be a total of £71k. So if I don't sell and instead choose to keep a five-year-old car, it'll cost as much as a brand new Model Y. The Model Y will also be a company car, so there'll be tax savings on the £71k too.

I definitely don't want a new Model X - as an ex-student of ergonomics and human-machine interaction, the wheel offends me! They're also danged expensive, and I excused the original purchase as 'doing my bit' to help accelerate EV adoption.

So, my choice is paying (over the odds) to keep the 2017 Model X, albeit with free Supercharging, or hang around and wait for the Model Y Performance to get delivered.

Whilst the falcon wing doors are great for showing off, they do get annoying. The car is on old MC hardware, it sometimes takes a while to boot up, and occasionally daft stuff will happen like the indicators will stop working. It's also not very efficient at ~440wh/mile compared to our ancient 2013 Renault Zoe's ~230wh/mile.

The Model Y Performance will have longer range, more modern compute hardware, and I'm hoping will be a tad more efficient. The acceleration will be quicker, but I'm slightly dreading dinging the silly low-profile tyres, and the missus is concerned about low profile tyres combined with the lack of air suspension.

Anyone been faced with a similar decision? Any regrets?

 

[pgkevet]

Have you sat in a Y? I did for the first time yesterday and it felt like being in a coffin after my S.. but then I’m over 6ft 7in. An X has acres more elbow room than the S and better high windscreen viz. The Y would be fine for my diminutive OH and I suppose I could get used to it...
It all depends on usage, dependence on the supercharger network and economics. Perhaps consideration for a newer used S or X?

 

[gangzoom]

So Tesla will give us £56k for our 4.5 year old 75D X, meaning the cost to change to a LR Y is 'only' about £3k for EAP.......A friend of ours recently got a Y and everyone has a 3.

I am I tempted, no way would I trade our X for a Y. I absolutely love the FWDs, its used every day with our daughter, in 6 seat config we can bring the grandparents along for the ride and in the summer we'll be touring Norway with 6 in the car. Add to that the air suspension, a proper instrument panel, and the massive windscreen.....why on earth would I give all that up for a Y???

More range is always welcome but having done near 50k in our 75D X and 10K in a 60D X before the extra range of a Y is worthless to us in the real world.

I would suggest getting the MCU2 retrofit as it does make a worth while difference. The only car I would replace our X with is another X (or something like the new Lotus EV), a Y though, unless there is a really good financial reason, no way, it's too much of a step down.

 

[teaston]

Have you had a test drive in a Model Y?

 

[guicane]

So Tesla will give us £56k for our 4.5 year old 75D X, meaning the cost to change to a LR Y is 'only' about £3k for EAP.......A friend of ours recently got a Y and everyone has a 3.

I am I tempted, no way would I trade our X for a Y. I absolutely love the FWDs, its used every day with our daughter, in 6 seat config we can bring the grandparents along for the ride and in the summer we'll be touring Norway with 6 in the car. Add to that the air suspension, a proper instrument panel, and the massive windscreen.....why on earth would I give all that up for a Y???

More range is always welcome but having done near 50k in our 75D X and 10K in a 60D X before the extra range of a Y is worthless to us in the real world.

I would suggest getting the MCU2 retrofit as it does make a worth while difference. The only car I would replace our X with is another X (or something like the new Lotus EV), a Y though, unless there is a really good financial reason, no way, it's too much of a step down.

Wow what a difference, I tried to see what tesla would give on my MX 100D with 109k miles and they don’t even get to £45k

 

[Peteski]

I swapped my 4 year old 50k mile MX 75D for a MY LR last week. It was literally a straight swap on trade-in. There were several key reasons I decided to take the Y

1. The X was always bigger than I really needed and the Y is still a very practical family hauler.
2. I did not want to own an ageing Tesla out of warranty! I could have extended the warranty on the MX, but it's a third party warranty and an additional expense
3. The tech was starting to show its age - MCU1, yellowing screen, more software bugs creeping in, less frequent OTA updates, etc. Owning a 2021 M3 alongside for a year was really starting to highlight this. I could upgrade the MCU to partly mitigate this, but that would be yet another expense.
4. Significantly improved range and efficiency.
5. Brand new car with no wear and tear. Nice to get that new car smell again!

Having owned the Y LR for a week or two I'm not regretting the swap at all. The handling is much sharper and the performance is a significant step up too. I don't see any real value in the Performance version and would be concerned about the ride quality and practicality of the 21" wheels. The build quality is much better than our X, although the materials and finish are slightly lower rent in some areas. But not enough to cause any remorse. Looks are subjective, but I think the Y has the edge here too. Ride quality on standard 19" wheels is fine (roughly similar to our X on 20" wheels). There are no creaks or rattles inside - our X had a few related to the FWDs and rear seats. The Y is completely silent in this respect. Road noise is maybe a tad higher in the Y, but wind noise a tad less. So not much in it as far as overall refinement goes.

Is there anything I miss about the MX? Maybe the FWDs, but only in terms of their novelty factor. I thought I would miss the panoramic windscreen too, but actually I don't really and it's nice to have practical sun visors again!

In summary I like the Y so much, we're in the process of trading in our M3 for a second one!

 

[Peteski]

Wow what a difference, I tried to see what tesla would give on my MX 100D with 109k miles and they don’t even get to £45k

This was another reason I bit their hand off for a trade-in of £56.5k for my 50k mile MX 75D. I can imagine the value falling off a cliff once the mileage ramps up and battery warranty end edges closer.

 

[gangzoom]

This was another reason I bit their hand off for a trade-in of £56.5k for my 50k mile MX 75D.

But that would mean downgrading to a Y!! Am glad you are enjoying yours....but having to open doors manually, that would not do .

We would happily get a Y to go along side our X, but downgrading cars (which it is) is something I promised my self I would never do unless financially forced to.

 

[gangzoom]

I can imagine the value falling off a cliff once the mileage ramps up and battery warranty end edges closer.

Our car is already out of warranty and actually I don't really care about residual value as I have no plans to sell it. I would however happily pay £20k for the new 90kWh battery from Tesla in a few years time.

As much as I would love another X to replace ours, cost will be biggest factor, for a 6 seater version a newer version will be well past £100k by the time we can order another one in the UK, which puts it into the unaffordable price tag .

But there are much much much worse things in life to worry about than having to 'slum' it in an older Tesla .

 

[gangzoom]

The finance agreement came to an end before the Y was available, so I paid off the rest (about £51k) and kept the car.......

.....The X was paid off using a directors loan, and I need to pay that back by the end of the year otherwise there'll be ~40% tax to pay on it, which will be a total of £71k.

Is this because you claimed back VAT when the car was new?

I just worked out if I got £56k cash for our X the total cost of ownership over the last 5 years would be sub £280/month, which is absurdly low. If you than factor in the 'free' Powerwall and x4 22inch wheels+Tesla gave me the X may be 'cheapest' car I have owned ever!!

That is the only temptation I have about trading it in right now, but the problem is what would I get to replace it? I have no interest in a Y or 3, and if I was doing it for financial reasons I would probably just do it properly and down grade to a sub £10k used Leaf, and put the £45k of spare cash into the house extension fund.........But there lies the 'problem' would having £45k in extra in bank account + a used Leaf make me feel 'happier', not a chance!!

....Just checked Nissan Leaf prices, £10k would barely get me into a 2013/14 30kWh car!! So scarp that idea. £20k would get me into a MG ZS, and £35k in the bank......think I'll pass on that idea too. Sticking it is for me .

 

[DeejUK]

Thanks for all the thoughts, folks! I appreciate it.

Have you sat in a Y? I did for the first time yesterday and it felt like being in a coffin after my S.. but then I’m over 6ft 7in.

Nah, I haven't. I'm a midget at about 5'10" though, so hopefully it'll be less of a concern for me.

in the summer we'll be touring Norway with 6 in the car

Ooh, cool! We got the 6-seater with the intention of ferrying grandparents around, but it never really happened. We're also driving to Norway in the summer, for the second time in a Model X. The missus is from near Ålesund, so we'll be staying with the in-laws. That was actually one of the main factors in getting the CCS adapter/upgrade.

I would suggest getting the MCU2 retrofit as it does make a worth while difference

How much does that cost, do you know? I had a quick poke around the app, and I couldn't see it listed.

Have you had a test drive in a Model Y?

You know what, I haven't! I ordered a Model Y Performance within an hour of getting the "orders are open email". I haven't even been in a Model 3! I've just scheduled one now, I don't think I'd realised that they were offering them for Model Ys.

Is this because you claimed back VAT when the car was new?

Ah, I was incorrect, and it's an additional 32.5% that would need to be paid. We're higher-rate tax-payers, so drawing down additional money from the business gets rather tax-inefficient. I didn't have the free cash hanging around to pay off the Model X, so took a director's loan, and if that's not paid back by the end of this accounting period (Jan '23) then the company will need to pay 32.5% tax on it. Once you factor in the corporation tax paid on the revenue to make that profit available, it ends up being around forty-something percent, which is probably where I got confused. If we keep the Model X, it doesn't make sense for our company to buy it from us as a company car, as being second-hand it wouldn't attract as much tax relief.

Having owned the Y LR for a week or two I'm not regretting the swap at all.

That's reassuring to hear, and it sounds like you've got similar gripes with the Model X to us, and had similar concerns with the Model Y. I do wonder about the windscreen... I do remember driving back from collecting the Model X after years of wanting a Tesla, in blazing sunshine, with Autopilot on, gazing straight up at the clear blue sky thinking "I did it!"

We've got a couple of barns to convert in the coming years, and part of me is thinking that I should really just get a new-gen Zoe and save tens of thousands of pounds towards the barns. However... The Supercharger network is really rather nice, and flooring it at the traffic lights in a Tesla never gets old!

 

[Peteski]

But that would mean downgrading to a Y!! Am glad you are enjoying yours....but having to open doors manually, that would not do .

We would happily get a Y to go along side our X, but downgrading cars (which it is) is something I promised my self I would never do unless financially forced to.

I don't see the Y as a downgrade to a 4 year old X. Being a newer model there are many aspects that I view as an upgrade, in particular the tech and build quality.

A few things have surprised me about the Y. We all know the X has a massive interior and I expected the Y to be much smaller. But actually the cabin and load space are very similar. I did watch this owner comparison video, which helped a lot when deciding to make the switch. Having now loaded up my road bike in the back of the Y, it fits easily without removing any wheels, just like it did in the X (7-seater). The rear load space in the Y is a few inches shorter, but that's about the only difference. Width is identical - within an inch either way. The video below confirms this more objectively.

Don't get me wrong, our Model X was the best family car we've ever owned by a country mile. The Falcon doors are iconic and, apart from causing a few minor creaks and rattles on rough roads and wearing the paint off the door shuts, they worked flawlessly for the 4 years we owned it. They were really practical when our 2 kids were still in child seats too. But honestly I'm happy to go back to conventional doors at this point. One less potential expense to worry about and they open really wide on the Y, so access is excellent. The panoramic windscreen on the X is also iconic, but then the Y has a full glass roof which is brilliant for rear passengers. It makes the rear feel much more airy than the X with those deeply recessed small skylights.

At this point the only thing that would tempt me back to an X would be a completely new model making it the game changer it was back when the original was released. The new interior doesn't do enough for me in this respect. The Y is obviously much cheaper too, which is fine by me! If the Y really did feel like a downgrade when driving then I would have been disappointed for sure, but fortunately it doesn't.

 

[Peteski]

I've ordered a Model Y Performance for about £71k, which I was hoping would be showing up soon, but might be delayed until the end of the year. I figured if I was going to downgrade, I might as well get something that goes faster

TLDR: I don't think the Performance version is worth the cost.

Full version:
I would give some thought to your choice of Performance vs LR. We paid £56k for the LR with standard AP and white interior. It's considerably quicker than our uncorked 2018 MX 75D (which is pretty much identical in performance to your 90D) and I haven't even bothered with the £1500 accel boost upgrade. On paper the 0-60 times are actually within 0.1 sec (X 4.9s vs Y 4.8s), but the mid range response and kick of the Y is just night and day quicker. I haven't seen any comparative figures for say 40-70 mph, but trust me the Y is much quicker in the real world (compared to a MX 75/90/100D)

I think the 0-60 times are so influenced by software torque limits from a standstill that they completely hide the mid-range performance differences. To put it another way I think our MX 75D was at a genuine full tilt off the line to hit 4.9 s 0-60, while the Y is certainly being held back on a short leash to hit 4.8 s. So once the leash is off (basically anywhere above 30-40 mph) the Y is inherently a much faster beast and there is very little difference between the LR and P models once you are off the line - with nearly all the extra acceleration coming from that initial kick away from a standstill. If you drive the LR and think it feels "sluggish" off the line then there's always the acceleration boost software option for £1500. You can try it for free for a couple of days too.

So I just don't think the Performance version is worth it in this case. It looks pretty on bigger wheels, but they are only going to get trashed sooner or later and make the ride harsher. The ride on standard 19" wheels and suspension is on the firm side of acceptable. It's not a problem, but I wouldn't want to push it any further with lower profile rubber. I don't know if the P model is lowered too, but if so that isn't going to help the ride quality either.

Your best bet of course is to try and drive both versions and I strongly recommend you do that before spending the extra cash.

 

[gangzoom]

We've got a couple of barns to convert in the coming years, and part of me is thinking that I should really just get a new-gen Zoe and save tens of thousands of pounds towards the barns.

Lets get real there, even paying for a full fat PLAID X is not going to make much of difference in doing any major building works at present!! If I sold X to release £56K of equality, that would disappear in a split second on the house extension, and when borrowing is still so cheap why down grade the car?

 

[gangzoom]

I don't see the Y as a downgrade to a 4 year old X. Being a newer model there are many aspects that I view as an upgrade, in particular the tech and build quality.

We can agree to disagree, we can swap into a Y cost free right now, but I simply cannot see any good reason to do it apart from extra range - which for us isn't an issue. Its good you like Y, its not for me, as a car to go along the X great, but as a replacement for it, no way.

 

[Peteski]

We can agree to disagree, we can swap into a Y cost free right now, but I simply cannot see any good reason to do it apart from extra range - which for us isn't an issue. Its good you like Y, its not for me, as a car to go along the X great, but as a replacement for it, no way.

Yes it was cost free to swap for us too. I couldn't see any reason NOT to do it, lol. The main drivers for us were having a full warranty again, more range and newer tech. The 3 never replaced our X, but the Y certainly has. To be honest, the Y was the Tesla we always wanted before it was available. The X was always a bit of overkill on size for our needs. Have you driven the Y? You might be surprised how practical it is. It's far closer to the X than the 3 in that sense.

 

[DeejUK]

the Y was the Tesla we always wanted before it was available

I can relate to this. For us the Model X was always a bit 'over the top', and I remember saying to the missus that "I don't want us to become flashy car people," meaning that I didn't want to get locked into having really expensive shiny things. I think you mentioned elsewhere that the X was a bit on the big side for your tastes, and I can understand that too - I refer to it as "the battleship".

Also totally respect @gangzoom's preference for the X

If I sold X to release £56K of equality, that would disappear in a split second on the house extension

Yep, I'm feeling that on materials. I'm hoping the world gets back to normal by the time we start, but I prepare to be disappointed! I'm starting to look at gaps in Tesla pricing like "ooh, that's the price of a ground source heat pump" or "that'd get us another X PV modules". Let alone when we get into the interior fittings, given that my other half is an interior designer!

 

[Peteski]

I can relate to this. For us the Model X was always a bit 'over the top', and I remember saying to the missus that "I don't want us to become flashy car people," meaning that I didn't want to get locked into having really expensive shiny things. I think you mentioned elsewhere that the X was a bit on the big side for your tastes, and I can understand that too - I refer to it as "the battleship".

I think the Y is a better compromise for us. Still big enough to carry a lot of stuff around in comfort, yet about 500 kg lighter than the X.

The Y makes both the 3 and X redundant for us and as a result of that we will end up with a pair of Ys by the summer! I didn't expect to chop in the 3 after barely a year, but trade-ins are so good at the moment it makes sense to take advantage.

 

[gangzoom]

To be honest, the Y was the Tesla we always wanted before it was available.

I think this is the biggest difference on our views of the X. We cancelled our S order after sitting in a X and seeing the FWDs in action. We don't need a car the size of the X, truth be told our 2009 Mazda works just as well as any other car I have ever driven interms of getting from A to B and carrying stuff. So interms of absolute utility and nessisity no Tesla (or EV) would ever be considered.

The X though is just mad, no one needs powered doors, the massive windscreen, the ridclouse central 'asiel' in back, but its all the reasons why we love ours, there literally is nothing else like it on the road. This is roughly the moment when my wife gave the OK to change our S order for the X, practically didn't really come into the decision making process .

Am sure the Y is a great car, but its not a X and I doubt anyone will ever make another car like the X again. You are long time dead so why not enjoy the mad stuff when you can. I honestly would love to replace our X with the new one in a few years time, but affordability is the issue.

 

[Peteski]

I think this is the biggest difference on our views of the X. We cancelled our S order after sitting in a X and seeing the FWDs in action. We don't need a car the size of the X, truth be told our 2009 Mazda works just as well as any other car I have ever driven interms of getting from A to B and carrying stuff. So interms of absolute utility and nessisity no Tesla (or EV) would ever be considered.

The X though is just mad, no one needs powered doors, the massive windscreen, the ridclouse central 'asiel' in back, but its all the reasons why we love ours, there literally is nothing else like it on the road. This is roughly the moment when my wife gave the OK to change our S order for the X, practically didn't really come into the decision making process .

Am sure the Y is a great car, but its not a X and I doubt anyone will ever make another car like the X again. You are long time dead so why not enjoy the mad stuff when you can. I honestly would love to replace our X with the new one in a few years time, but affordability is the issue.

I love the X too, but was just the right time for me to move on while it was still hanging together. It had a growing list of minor niggles that needed attention, which are now an SEP, lol. I would however be very tempted again by a new model in 3 or 4 years time if they replace the X.