TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

X vs S - what am I missing?

Discussion in 'Model X' started by dckiwi, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. dckiwi

    dckiwi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Reston, VA
    I admit I'm a Tesla noob. I ordered a Model S60 with AWD, Pano roof, and leather seats yesterday.

    Today I stopped by the dealership with my wife just to show her the S in person. We started looking at the X. I had never considered it because I assumed it was significantly more expensive.

    Then I priced out an X that (as far as I can tell) has the same options as my S. AWD is standard and there's no such thing as a pano roof, so the only thing I added was leather seats.

    My S price: $77,500
    My X price: $79,000

    Why would I not order the X? As far as I can tell it's more spacious, the gull wing doors seem awesome, and it's bad-ass looking just like the S.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. travwill

    travwill Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    893
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I owned an S, and am moving now into an X. In general, from what I can say (somewhat short is):

    1. S is better if you like the lower feel of a car. It is definitely harder to get in/out of and you have to kinda twist into the front seat even but learn how to do it. Not good for older people front or back.

    2. S has the opening pano. Kinda miss it but didn't use it too much I guess. The windshield on the X is amazing, actually appreciate having that all the time versus opening the pano sometimes.

    3. X, higher ride height, like that a lot. That is the biggest different.

    4. The X has some refinements the S still doesn't have. A little more trim around it, wood, little things like the seat belts being height adjustable that the S still doesn't have, etc.

    5. The has by default less space in the back, until you put the seats down and its fine. The S by default has a huge hatchback back, which liked a lot.

    6. The ground clearance of the X is better, 8+ inches, versus 5+ inches on the S. Lot less scraping to worry about which I like over driveways/bumps, etc.

    7. The S is reliable at this point. The X is as well, but the FWDs seem to be finicky for some people - haven't experienced that yet but they are two more majorly moving parts that could go wrong. Although, don't have to deal with the motorized door handles on the S that can also die after time (the FWD doors are a complicated mechanical/electrical feature for sure).

    Enjoy either way I'm sure!!
     
    • Informative x 5
    • Like x 3
  3. ModelX

    ModelX Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2012
    Messages:
    917
    Location:
    Orem, Utah
    Love my X! I chose it over the X because of ease of entry and exit and the higher ride height! The S is beautiful and gives you the hug the road feel that the X can't quite duplicate.
     
    • Like x 2
  4. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,743
    Location:
    Texas
    Different cars for different priorities. The S has more range, more cargo room, lower centre of gravity. The X has more passenger room, towing capacity, and higher ride height. It all depends upon what you're looking for.
     
    • Like x 6
  5. electricity

    electricity Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Florida
    If i was going for a P90D Ludicrous i would go with the S. If its for general point A-B travel and confort, i dont think anything beats the X. Like nothing on the road, ICE or not.
     
    • Love x 1
  6. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,399
    #6 ChadS, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    The X has several advantages; the ones that pop to my mind have already been listed above. So I will skip them and just answer the OP's question about what some prefer about the S (most already mentioned above, but trying to put them together):

    1. many think it is better looking (though that is obviously an opinion and not all agree)
    2. it is a little cheaper - not a lot when ordering comparable vehicles new, but can be significant if you consider inventory/CPO/used, and especially if you are fine with RWD and no pano. The smaller tires are likely cheaper too
    3. it is more efficient. Yeah, most people don't care, but for some of us it's part of why we went electric in the first place. That also makes it a little cheaper to fuel and a little quicker to gain range at a charger
    4. at any price/battery size, it is quicker and has a little more range
    5. it's just a little smaller - it is a tiny difference and probably rarely matters, but for some the S is already a pain to get in the garage
    6. rear seats fold down. My wife throws her bike in the back about once a week; super easy in the S. I also occasionally camp in the car when traveling without her; though I could probably give that up
    7. probably more reliable at this point
    8. the opening pano I guess; though not a big deal to me (now the Roadster's removable top, THAT is cool)
    9. no look-at-me falcon wing doors (they are kind of cool and I see why Tesla used them; I am sure some would disagree with this one. But after 7 years driving a yellow Roadster I am kind of looking forward to having fewer people stare at my car)
    10. I suspect it feels a little better in the corners, though I am just guessing as I didn't get to push any corners in my short X test drive

    For many, none of these are compelling. Some would prefer the X's advantages, some could go either way. For me, the S made a little more sense (even though my wife already has one!), especially as an inventory lease.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    The problematic falcon wing doors and front doors.

    A few of the MANY examples:
    please help: Front door latch just failed have to drive 400 miles in AM with latch warning beeping!
    1 week in, FWD troubles begin
    Totally non-responsice FWD
    Tesla X last straw - Open Letter
    Falcon wing scratching and scuffing other parts
    So sad. . .the X is going back to service center :(
    Horrible Horrible and Terrible Day! - I believe he got his car bought back

    I don't like the styling of the Model X either, as I've echoed many times. Model X looks too much like the BMW X6 which to me, was a styling fail from day 1, WAY before the Model X existed. But, that's subjective... I'm floored that I've actually met few folks who like how the X6 looks.

    In my book, the Model S looks FAR better. I also prefer the earlier front styling of the S...
     
    • Dislike x 3
    • Informative x 1
  8. xkwizit

    xkwizit Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    608
    Location:
    Folsom, CA, United States
    Owning both S and X, I must say that S is primarily a commuter for us while X is the chosen one going anywhere above 50miles. Much better ride on X. Unbeatable views. And unless you want to load bikes in the car, plenty of space. Much easier to get in and out for front seat as well as middle row as compared to the S.

    Don't be fazed by all things being said about the doors. Those were mostly issues with early cars though a few Xs are randomly still having some issues. For every car that had issues there are several more that didn't.

    X definitely is a magnet of attention. It's a VVIP on its own and you are it's chauffeur. Being shy, I wasn't used to the attention but very soon I started to like it.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Informative x 1
  9. PtG62901

    PtG62901 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Messages:
    316
    Location:
    Carbondale, IL
    If you live in a traffic infested city, the right height of the X is a real plus. But, the X is heavier, slower, doesn't turn as well, to go with size, and height. The S is like driving a S Class Mercedes, with more power and clean, X is the world's best driving minivan. Glad there is a choice of both, and glad I don't live in a traffic infested city anymore. :)

    It would be interesting to me to know how many people prefer the X, and have a bad back, or generally have physical trouble with lower seating height. I see quite a bit of bad back comments in the boards.

    I wonder if the X will outsell the S next year? This year would be hard to judge because of other factors.
     
    • Dislike x 2
  10. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,650
    Location:
    Fairfax County Virginia
    #10 Xenoilphobe, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    I love the Model S. Not a fan of the X, I tried to be a fan, took the kids and the wife to check it out multiple times and I couldn't get any user adoption in our house.

    Sticking with the S until they come up with a more utilitarian SUV or Pickup truck or Van and not a creeper looking El Camino truck either. I want the next version to have a serious power backup capability (quasi - prepper in me) and be for a guy - not a metrosexual guy, but a man who will haul mulch, put guns in it, carry off road dirt bikes, and camp in it.

    If I were older and less nimble, I might look at the X, but I think I will continue to raise the suspension like i do now to help with egress in the Model S.

    Things the drove us away:

    Me: Lacked utility - couldn't use a roof rack, weird FWD's, couldn't fold down the center seats, towing is no different that what the S can do - they have the exact same powertrain, only reason Tesla doesn't certify the S for towing is they want to sell you the X. reduced range. I like to drive right at 80 MPH when traveling and I suspect the larger vehicle will eat through the battery at that speed. Didn't like the "style" - is more CUV than SUV and reminds me of the weird MB Wagon which wasn't a wagon (can't remember the name of it they got ride of it finally)

    I have added nice things to the Model S's and they rock now (already have tow hitches on both for our bike racks etc, dual security cameras, tint and upgraded sound systems as well as Opticoat) and they glide on long road trips..

    Teens: tight space in the back seats, not sporty like the S, no sunroof.

    Wife: Cramped back seat, too low (compared to other SUV's we looked at), weird doors, unattractive body style, too tight to replace a van or SUV. (we used to have a Toyota Sienna Limited with twin sunroofs and wife likes the body style MB GL350)

    I wanted to like the X, but it doesn't fit our active lifestyle (I will continue to use our FJ for camping and hauling my trailer for toys (ATV,s Canoes, Dirt bikes etc..), I can plug into the 1500 watt power inverter I have in the FJ and run most of car camping devices (laptops, lamps, microwave, etc.. ). It needs more utility and I would trade that for "luxury", even an AWD Van with an integrated Camper would get me to trade in both Model S's.
     
  11. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    854
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    No doubt I've had issues with my Falcon Wing Doors as much as anyone else has. But Tesla has taken care of me 100%. I am one of the VERY few who have had their front door and Falcon Wing Door collide. Tesla took care of the damage of that occurrence and it has never happened again. I also had the phantom obstacle on closing and Tesla fixed that issue. There are some early issues just like with Model S in 2013, but they are becoming less common and the issues are all being addressed by Tesla. Yes some early vehicles were bought back, but the thread that was linked with a buy back wasn't actually a buy back but a replacement. The poster still wanted Model X, he just didn't want the faulty one he received.

    You can argue looks all you want, but in my book, Model S is difficult to get in and out of. And if you have children in car seats, forget about it. Not to mention if you drive Model X for any significant period of time, all vehicles without the panoramic windshield will feel claustrophobic to you.

    To actually answer the OP though, Model S 60D will give you 18 miles more range than Model X 60D. The pano roof will open if you are in to that sort of thing, but you will not have the pano windshield. The only other thing is you must have priced out a 5 seat Model X because the minimum price for a 6 seat Model X with leather seats is $82,000. The reason I bring this up is no one has any clue when the 5 seat Model X will actually start delivering. The 6 seat option costs $3,000 and also requires active suspension.
     
    • Informative x 1
  12. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Messages:
    854
    Location:
    Marietta, GA
    I'm not sure how Model S is anything like an S class Mercedes. S class is a luxury vehicle, Model S and Model X are both premium sedan/CUVs respectively. I am 34, don't have a bad back, exercise regularly, and I hated the Model S loaner I had. It was difficult to get into, I had to have my driver seat way forward because the driver side back seat was the only reasonable place to put my son's car seat, and getting my son in and out of the car was a pain as well. Plus, if you have seen the recent thread of the drunk driver who rear ended a Model S, I'm fairly confident my son would have had a significantly higher chance of survival in such a collision because of the height and weight of Model X and the fact that my son is in the center seat in Model X. My family's safety trumps all other factors and I'm very glad I waited for Model X.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
    • Dislike x 1
  13. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,650
    Location:
    Fairfax County Virginia
    These are all great reasons to own an X, my kids are older 14 and 17 but if they were still in child seats - the X would be an option. I did see that thread on the S fatality - 65 MPH into the back of any unibody car is going to create catastrophic injuries - maybe less so with an X, but I'm not sure 3 inch higher suspension would have saved that poor girl. Nothing stops that kind of force - if that had been a semi - everyone in that car would have been a fatality.

    I think you made an excellent decision base on your priorities - you still got the (tongue in cheek) second best car Tesla has ever made!
     
  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,316
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    Your line of reasoning makes sense to me. I have owned an S since December 2013. It is a fantastic car, and I really don't have any need for more seating or the ability to carry bulkier items (like the X can) and I have no kids. But the X fascinates me, and it amazes me that the price difference between and S and an X when configured with the same number of seats and options is so small.

    For that small additional cost with the X you get the super cool (and I feel very useful) Falcon Wings, that incredible windshield, easier ingress/egress than the S, the ability to carry bulkier cargo (but not longer cargo) and what feels like overall roomier interior based on my X test drive (sounds like you configured 5 seats to come up with that X price, which is fine if that is all you need).

    What you lose with the X is the sunroof (which I have never wanted in any car I have ever had, but have had several, don't use them), the optional roof rack, a small amount of range, and the ability to carry really long items. But in a way the X has a sunroof since the windshield goes up over your head and there are small "roof windows" in the Falcon Wing doors.

    NOTE: Think carefully about if the 60kWh battery wI'll provide you with enough range for the type of driving you do. I think the single most important option for many people is to get the 75.

    And then get Autopilot. :)

    Final thought: if I was in the market to buy an EV right now and was considering the X, I would not be deterred by the reports of firmware problems effecting the control of the doors and second row seats. Tesla will figure them out and they will be resolved through software updates. I think the door sensor hardware issues are already resolved.

    The X is going to go down in history as one of the most amazingly revolutionary vehicles ever produced.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Love x 1
  15. dckiwi

    dckiwi Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    103
    Location:
    Reston, VA
    I want to thank everyone for your detailed and helpful feedback. I only joined this forum a couple of weeks ago and I've been blown away by how helpful, patient and courteous everyone is. I hope to repay the favor once I have a Tesla parked in my garage.

    I'm going back tomorrow to test drive the X, although at this point I'm leaning more towards the S. I'm going to be the only one in the car most of the time (to/from work), so the X feels like overkill. Plus, I'm having a bit of a mid-life crisis and the S scratches that itch for some reason.

    I had originally planned to wait for the Model 3 but I'm going to cancel my reservation. I'm 6'4" and I'd like a car that's commensurate with my height. I currently drive an Acura TSX, which is considered a larger compact sedan. I was surprised today when I parked my TSX next to a Model S, and they were fairly similar in size (same length, S was wider). I suspect the Model 3 will just be too small for me.

    They're really trying to move cars this month too. They're waiving the destination fee ($1,200) for all cars delivered in September. I have to admit I'm tempted to push my delivery to October or November (losing that $1,200), only because they're on the cusp of shipping with new AP hardware and I'd hate to miss it by a month or two.

    Spending this much on a car is nerve wracking. However, after a couple of test drives I understand what all the excitement is about. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of my new car :)
     
    • Like x 4
  16. electricity

    electricity Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Florida
    This is not happening anymore in the new builds.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  17. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2014
    Messages:
    706
    Location:
    California
    It's the type of vehicle you want, not the price, that should guide your decision. A 5 series and an X5 are priced similarly. Do you want a 3 row crossover or a sedan? Cars generally aren't priced by the pound.
     
  18. cwerdna

    cwerdna Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2012
    Messages:
    1,031
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, CA
    #18 cwerdna, Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
    How recent would it need to be in order to be "in the new builds"?

    1 week in, FWD troubles begin was from Friday 8/19/16 and says "We just picked up our new 75D last Friday."
    Driver Door Latch Confused has folks from June

    First delivery of Model X took place ~Sep 29, 2015. Yet, months after that, folks continued to receive vehicles with front and falcon wing door problems w/some requiring multiple visits to the SC to correct this. One has to wonder whether either set of doors has been subject to the type of testing at automotive reliability and durability testing and what the odds are of passing such a test if a random unit was taking off the line.

    I've never known anyone w/door problems of this nature on sub-$50K Japanese cars within the first 5 years. Heck, door problems seem very rare on any car even after they get old. I could forsee issues on luxury cars with mechanisms that pull the door shut...

    Between every car my parents and I have owned or leased (a mix of American and Japanese) over almost 40 years, none has ever had a door problem w/opening or closing.
     
  19. UnitaryExecutive

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    The powered doors are one of my favorite features of the X and why it's hard to compare to a Japanese car. It's one of those things where if you don't have it you look at an X and see only reliability issues and when you have it and step into another car you really really miss it. Closing all doors with the fob while walking away, being able to hold kids and groceries while doing it, opening doors for passengers from the console, etc. Not having to close a door is kind of awesome.

    To me, it's kinda like saying "I hate garage door openers because they break and require maintenance then once you have it you're like whatever, how did people get out of their cars and manually open garage doors before?"
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  20. UnitaryExecutive

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Elon made a comment on a conference call to the effect of I would be surprised if the X wasn't the product people love the most and that was the reason why we went for the X instead of an S and it hasn't disappointed.

    No one, even tesla, will ever try to build another product like the X again due to difficulty of engineering and manufacturing. I feel so privileged everyday to own a product like this and really feel like very few companies attempt to build great, non incremental products like this. I never expected to own one and was prepared for the regret of never owning a once in a lifetime product like this. Luckily my wife had other ideas.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1

Share This Page