EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Good reminder. Waxes with petroleum distillate bases are a no-no as they can damage the film.
Thanks for the tip on CQuart Reload!
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Good reminder. Waxes with petroleum distillate bases are a no-no as they can damage the film.
Thanks for the tip on CQuart Reload!
Hi, I had a full XPEL Ultimate wrap with my Model S and went on to 1300km roadtrip mostly on highways. I've got a lot of bugs on the hood so after I arrived at the destination I wiped it with wet soft cloth, but one bug residue was still there so I thought it may be better to let pros do it.
4 days later I went to a professional detailer and asked for wash and cleaning of the residue, which he tried in vain! He used some XPEL protectant on the problem area (about 4 inches long, half inch wide) but it didn't disappear.
Today I emailed the XPEL installer and asked for the advice. He asked me to bring the car over, but suggested to use very warm, not hot water with soft cloth and gently wipe the residue off.
I tried to take the photo but was impossible with phone camera. What do you suggest?? I'm pretty sad...
4 days later I went to a professional detailer and asked for wash and cleaning of the residue, which he tried in vain! He used some XPEL protectant on the problem area (about 4 inches long, half inch wide) but it didn't disappear.
Today I emailed the XPEL installer and asked for the advice. He asked me to bring the car over, but suggested to use very warm, not hot water with soft cloth and gently wipe the residue off.
I tried to take the photo but was impossible with phone camera. What do you suggest?? I'm pretty sad...
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Sorry to hear. Without photos, a little tough to tell. This is one reason why we nano coat the film after installation. Film alone does have its limitations. All bugs/bird dropping stains are not the same as the chemistry of the insect/bird differs based on species and diet. If the bug guts were acidic, then that could have damaged the top coat of the film.
Please try and post some photos when you get a moment.
Hi, @MoeMistry,
Thanks for your reply. My XPEL installer finally sent some photo of the residue, which he thought some kind of bird poop! It seemed like bird poop, because, per his guess, bugs do not contain acid and from his eyes this "residue" melted the XPEL top coat. He assured me that he will re-do the hood wrap again for me, as he feels sorry for me and also he thinks he could apply for XPEL warranty and XPEL folks might be interested in this melted film...
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Depending on insects, the pH is definitely acidic...4.5-5.0 inside guts of some insects. I simply googled insect gut pH and found a few places eluding to acidic pH of insects.
Unfortunately, clear bra is no match for some insects. You may want to consider a nano coating as this might help protect the clear bra against future issues like this.
Glad to see your installer is valuing your relationship and taking care of this.
Hi @MoeMistry, thanks again for your valuable information! The residue is big and long as you can see, so it must be a big bug or super bird poop...
May I ask, what kind of annoying coating do you recommend? I might do that over the XPEL.
May I ask, what kind of annoying coating do you recommend? I might do that over the XPEL.
Hey Moe, have you given your treatment to both standard white and Pearl White Teslas, and have any comments about how the two compare before and after? Thanks.......
I did partial XPEL, primarily to protect against rock chips on a black car. This was front, full hood, front quarter panels, and rear bumper. Then I did Gtechniq C1 Crystal Laquer on the non-XPEL parts to provide some additional protection (like a second clear coat layer) and then Gtechniq EXOv2 to even up the shine between the XPEL and non-XPEL parts and provide the hydrophobic coating that helps keep the car clean. It also helps make a rain storm seem like a mini detail session on most parts of the car, notably the back doesn't get enough air movement while driving to keep it clean. The Gtechniq items have many competitors. I wanted something that could be either professionally or self applied.
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
Yes, we've done both. The Pearl White, with it's metallic flecks, really comes alive with the nano coating. Standard white "pops" more and has a nice shine to it, but will obviously lack the depth of pearl white.
No matter the color, it will be enhanced with the paint correction/nano coating process.
MoeMistry
Former Vendor
There really is not a permanent sealant out there, semi-permanent would be more accurate. Coating can last a few years with proper care.
For DIY, CQuartz UK would be a great option if you've done a proper correction and paint is free of imperfections such as swirls and scratches.
Professionally, CQuartz Finest and Modesta are two quality coatings as well.
But remember, you can get great protection by simply doing routine care and applying a nano spray sealant such as CQuartz Reload. You don't need to spend a lot or stress out over what has to be done to the paint. Tesla paint does have its unique issues, but how we address those issues will be quite different based on client needs, wants, and budget.
paintpolisher
Banned
Here is OptiCoat Pro at 22 months after a decon wash on a Audi:
OptiCoat Pro at 22 months Audi S5 - YouTube
I'm still debating between Optimum's new GlossCoat or OptiCoat Pro for our MCR S85. I just had Suntek PPF applied to full front and rear bumper cover. Also went with Phorosync tint 45 for sides/rear and 75 windshield/pano.
We recently applied Optimum's GlossCoat which is rated at a 2 year coating and is slicker/glossier then OptiCoat Pro to a Porsche 918 that had full suntek applied.
My wife's S85
Here is the 918 in Liquid Metal Blue w full suntek coverage and Optimum GlossCoat
Spot on Moe.
We get this question a lot and I can spend hours on this subject.
To clarify, there is NOTHING out there that is going to do what a wrap does. Coatings and sealants can minimize scratches but they cannot prevent them. Having a clear bra on the car that is 150-200 microns thick, in comparison to the best nano coating that is 5-9 microns thick. Products like Opti-coat, CQuartz, Modesta, etc. are great, but they will not prevent rock chips, scratches, scrapes, etc.
As for the misconception of only needing a "detail" every two years, to each his own. It's like me saying I'll go to the dentist every two years but I'm still going to eat 3 times a day. Brushing and flossing is great, but seeing your dentist every 3-6 months helps stay on top of any diseases and not to mention you'll have beautiful pearly white teeth to enjoy everyday while you chomp awaySo, a proper detailing regimen is just as important as a tune up and caring for the mechanics of your car.
As for complete wraps going for $3000-4000, well...you get what you pay for. The devil is always in the details. Different regions, different installer skill, different business background, all play a role in pricing. Bottom line, best thing to ask an installer:
1. How much experience do you have installing clear bra?
2. How much experience do you have installing brand xyz?
3. Do you pre-cut or hand trim? If hand trim, are you bulk wrapping or computer cutting and trimming by hand? Those installers that simply lay down film and trim everything by hand are pure artists. This requires years to master and the results are near seamless and flawless.
4. What is manufacturer warranty and YOUR warranty? What if you stop using film xyz, will you still warranty my installation years down the road?
5. What steps do you take to prep my paint for installation? At a minimum, a proper washing and claying is crucial. Higher end shops will perform a proper paint correction and touch up any paint chips
6. If you do a FULL coverage, define FULL. How far to the edge of each panel do you come? Do you wrap over edges? Do you remove panels to gain greater access and wrap film around edges? If you do take off panels, how much experience do you have with MY car?
7. What do you do to the film post installation? Do you apply a coating to protect the film?
8. What's a good time for me to stop by and see your work?
9. and the final question once all these questions have been asked HOW MUCH FOR MY BABY (your car, not real baby
A typical new client calls us:
Client: I've seen your work on the forums, how much for my ....
Me: It's $XXXX-XX,XXX depending on coverage.... then he's shocked.
Client: Well that's XX% more than your competitor.
Me: For the price you were quoted, what coverage is it?
Client: Full, of course
Me: What film is it?
Client: Um, not sure. I didn't ask. (Or sometimes they say XPEL...then I ask is it XPEL Ultimate? Because they make several levels of film. The answer then is also, well, I didn't know they make different ones)
Me: What's their pre and post prep?
Client: I'm not sure
Me: What's the shop's warranty?
Client: I'm not sure; I didn't ask. The film is X years. (That's great, but what if shop no longer carries that film in a few years. Then what? Our warranty is always with GP. As long as we're in business, you've got us to take ownership of whatever happens to your film...within reason
Me: What is their definition of FULL and SEAMLESS install?
Client: Not sure...what's your's
By the end of this educational conversation, I've empowered the client so much that now he/she can make a clear choice as to which service is of VALUE. Being the cheapest doesn't provide the best value. And almost 9/10 times, we end up earning that client's business for so many reason other than just the mere act of installing XPEL Ultimate on their Model S. It's about the relationship and knowing someone is going to treat you right and care for your car like you would.
I hope this helps.
Finally, as long as you have a proper coating on the film, simply wash and apply a nano sealant spray and your film is going to look great for years depending on what you chose. Remember, a visit to your detailer every six month also assures you and he are on top of that investment protecting your whole car. Just common sense IMHO.
Oh, as for repainting a whole car for $4000....I think Ben Franklin said it best "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten". To paint a car properly, as in back to OEM, is around $12-15000. And even that, it'll never be as good as factory.
docrice
Member
Apologies in advance for the lengthy commentary...
I prioritize defective-free paint over shine and gloss. If you really want to increase your odds on ensuring swirl-free paint and preserve factory clear for as long as possible, I think there's no real option other than a wrap. Sealants and coatings aren't there for physical damage protection except for very light-contact items like dirt or maybe some types of bird bombs with virtually no acidity.
My story from last week - car troubles resulted in getting a flatbed ride to a service center. I emphasized to them to really be careful with the paint. The front has XPEL Ultimate, but nothing else (except Sonax Net Shield). From the time I picked up the car from my detailer (10/09) to the time it went into the service center (10/11) due to a 12V battery issue, it was less than 48 hours. When I got it back four days later (10/15), I saw swirls on the doors; obvious in sunlight, very obvious under 600-lumen LED flashlight and I video-documented with my phone's camera. Unlikely I put those swirls in there in those two days before the battery failure. Less than 200 miles on the odometer too.
While I'd like to point fingers, I was ultimately naive to expect Tesla to be super-sensitive of paint during service. The car was delivered to me new at the factory with a few minor swirls and scratches to begin with. Expecting this, I had already scheduled with a detailer a month prior for immediate correction on that day, but he was behind schedule and the delivery folks allowed me to keep the car on their lot for almost a week. I was that adamant about keeping the clear safe because I only get one shot with factory paint, especially the front-end, so I didn't even drive my new car for the first week.
The service center acknowledged the swirling issues and that it potentially could have been them or the factory (where the car was moved to for diagnosis) and offered to correct it in-house. While I considered their offer, there's a reason why I went with a third-party to do the correction in the first place - their level of standard as-delivered to the customer when the car was new was simply not what I would like. But I also don't think it's practical to expect Tesla to have extremely careful paint-handling protocols while manufacturing, prepping, and servicing vehicles to a mass market customer base, 99% of whom probably wouldn't notice nor care about these issues. Tesla can try and up their service game all they want, but at some point the cost-benefit stops making sense.
I'm therefore getting the affected areas corrected (again) and then wrapped. It's inevitable that someone (either the service centers, friends, co-workers, on-lookers, or myself) will eventually mar the paint or mishandle washing. Even I screwed up a few days ago when I was washing the car, the air dryer hose came off by itself, and smacked against the passenger door creating a scuff mark. Yeah, that hurt.
Would a coating have prevented these sort of damages? I don't know since I've never had one, but I doubt it. Wraps are there to take the brunt of low-impact hits, especially from road debris but also from people-handling. Coatings I feel are too thin to really help much in this regard, even though they seem to be marketed as miracle paint shields. I know XPEL has the advertised self-healing feature, but even then a rock impact isn't going to correct itself if it (likely) gets deep enough into the film. At least wraps are replaceable. 10 years from now when I have the second wrap job removed, I'd like to be able to see factory-original paint still in pristine condition. That's my goal. After the service center/factory handling, I see virtually no swirls on the wrap unlike the rest of the car. They did leave fingerprint smudges on the front-end where they had to access body panels and such but at least those wash off.
For me, gloss is nice but a swirl-free finish is more paramount. You can only polish the clear down so far until it's too thin to correct anymore. 10 - 20 year old original factory paint in near-perfect condition is bragging rights. I consider shiny swirls on glossy paint is a ruined look, and there are a lot of those out there.
I prioritize defective-free paint over shine and gloss. If you really want to increase your odds on ensuring swirl-free paint and preserve factory clear for as long as possible, I think there's no real option other than a wrap. Sealants and coatings aren't there for physical damage protection except for very light-contact items like dirt or maybe some types of bird bombs with virtually no acidity.
My story from last week - car troubles resulted in getting a flatbed ride to a service center. I emphasized to them to really be careful with the paint. The front has XPEL Ultimate, but nothing else (except Sonax Net Shield). From the time I picked up the car from my detailer (10/09) to the time it went into the service center (10/11) due to a 12V battery issue, it was less than 48 hours. When I got it back four days later (10/15), I saw swirls on the doors; obvious in sunlight, very obvious under 600-lumen LED flashlight and I video-documented with my phone's camera. Unlikely I put those swirls in there in those two days before the battery failure. Less than 200 miles on the odometer too.
While I'd like to point fingers, I was ultimately naive to expect Tesla to be super-sensitive of paint during service. The car was delivered to me new at the factory with a few minor swirls and scratches to begin with. Expecting this, I had already scheduled with a detailer a month prior for immediate correction on that day, but he was behind schedule and the delivery folks allowed me to keep the car on their lot for almost a week. I was that adamant about keeping the clear safe because I only get one shot with factory paint, especially the front-end, so I didn't even drive my new car for the first week.
The service center acknowledged the swirling issues and that it potentially could have been them or the factory (where the car was moved to for diagnosis) and offered to correct it in-house. While I considered their offer, there's a reason why I went with a third-party to do the correction in the first place - their level of standard as-delivered to the customer when the car was new was simply not what I would like. But I also don't think it's practical to expect Tesla to have extremely careful paint-handling protocols while manufacturing, prepping, and servicing vehicles to a mass market customer base, 99% of whom probably wouldn't notice nor care about these issues. Tesla can try and up their service game all they want, but at some point the cost-benefit stops making sense.
I'm therefore getting the affected areas corrected (again) and then wrapped. It's inevitable that someone (either the service centers, friends, co-workers, on-lookers, or myself) will eventually mar the paint or mishandle washing. Even I screwed up a few days ago when I was washing the car, the air dryer hose came off by itself, and smacked against the passenger door creating a scuff mark. Yeah, that hurt.
Would a coating have prevented these sort of damages? I don't know since I've never had one, but I doubt it. Wraps are there to take the brunt of low-impact hits, especially from road debris but also from people-handling. Coatings I feel are too thin to really help much in this regard, even though they seem to be marketed as miracle paint shields. I know XPEL has the advertised self-healing feature, but even then a rock impact isn't going to correct itself if it (likely) gets deep enough into the film. At least wraps are replaceable. 10 years from now when I have the second wrap job removed, I'd like to be able to see factory-original paint still in pristine condition. That's my goal. After the service center/factory handling, I see virtually no swirls on the wrap unlike the rest of the car. They did leave fingerprint smudges on the front-end where they had to access body panels and such but at least those wash off.
For me, gloss is nice but a swirl-free finish is more paramount. You can only polish the clear down so far until it's too thin to correct anymore. 10 - 20 year old original factory paint in near-perfect condition is bragging rights. I consider shiny swirls on glossy paint is a ruined look, and there are a lot of those out there.
From personal experience you should get a coating like 22ple. 12 months now with a coating and it's virtually completely swirl free. I painted corrected it first with DA polisher of course. I do have XPEL on the front and I topped that with 22ple too. I had my doubts prior (never coated a car before) but now I stand a true believer. The first 6 months I had the car I just had the wrap -- no coating and man despite meticulous washing it looked horrible with the swirls. I'm still amazed that after the paint correction and 22ple and a year of washing there isn't a hint of swirls. I never thought a coating like 22ple would provide that level of protection but wow, just wow. Seriously u should consider it. It'll save you so much time since the car will look great like 24/7! No more worries!
carlg
Member
Hi Alysashely79,
I am hoping for delivery on a red S85D by the end of the month (was supposed to enter production last week, but still hasn't) and am planning to have Huper Optic window tinting and some type of PPF (3M or XPEL) applied to just the front half (hood, fenders, bumper, mirrors) installed by Midnight Window Tint in Bellevue, WA. The reasons I choose them was they claim to have done several Teslas, sounded cheaper, and offer a Groupon (which of course doesn't begin to cover the "upgrade" to Huper Optic window film or XPEL PPF), but still would be far, far less than the $4-$8K being discussed here. I am now becoming a little nervous about going forward with them, given all the issues being discussed by others who have had PPF misapplied. Do you know of anyone who has used Midnight Window Tint and had a good or bad application? Who did you use, and how did you decide upon them? I am picking on you because your profile says you are in Seattle, which is where I will take delivery, even though I live in Blaine, near the Canadian border.
Hello everyone,
I thought I would share my experience to help you make a better decision when it comes to protecting your car. Had a black model s 85 for a year that had 5 coatings of ceramic pro. The surface was very hydrophobic and kept the car clean on top of enhancing the color depth. Swirl marks despite careful washing was an issue and constant highway driving left a front bumper full of small chips despite the protection offered by the coating. I took delivery last week of a silver p85d and I was uncertain this time as to what should I do to maintain and protect the car paint. Auto Super Shield in Boca Raton is the place where I took my brand new baby for paint protection and tint. After seeing some demos of what Xpel Ultimate could do to prevent scratches while going at it with a wire brush my doubts had vanished. Yes, it did cost $4k+ but I was very satisfied with the work performed, how accommodating and professional they were in addition to the extreme attention to detail. So off I go into the wilderness of Florida's parking lots only to realize 3 days after my install that someone slammed their minivan hard against my front bumper and took off (see pictures).
Based on how this looked I was pretty sure I was done for. I took it back to Auto Super Shield and was blown away that the film had protected the paint underneath completely. The owner was exceptional not only at replacing the film right there and then and returning the car to the original condition but also refused to charge me. After this experience they gained a customer for life and can say with certainty that the film cost was already offset by this incident.
I thought I would share my experience to help you make a better decision when it comes to protecting your car. Had a black model s 85 for a year that had 5 coatings of ceramic pro. The surface was very hydrophobic and kept the car clean on top of enhancing the color depth. Swirl marks despite careful washing was an issue and constant highway driving left a front bumper full of small chips despite the protection offered by the coating. I took delivery last week of a silver p85d and I was uncertain this time as to what should I do to maintain and protect the car paint. Auto Super Shield in Boca Raton is the place where I took my brand new baby for paint protection and tint. After seeing some demos of what Xpel Ultimate could do to prevent scratches while going at it with a wire brush my doubts had vanished. Yes, it did cost $4k+ but I was very satisfied with the work performed, how accommodating and professional they were in addition to the extreme attention to detail. So off I go into the wilderness of Florida's parking lots only to realize 3 days after my install that someone slammed their minivan hard against my front bumper and took off (see pictures).
Based on how this looked I was pretty sure I was done for. I took it back to Auto Super Shield and was blown away that the film had protected the paint underneath completely. The owner was exceptional not only at replacing the film right there and then and returning the car to the original condition but also refused to charge me. After this experience they gained a customer for life and can say with certainty that the film cost was already offset by this incident.
Attachments
ArtInCT
Always Learning
Jean-Claude
Former Vendor
I see clear bra as a peace of mind for the owner. Yes, a full wrap ensures a swirl free paint job and easier washes...but the real value is in peace of mind, imho. You spend a lot of money on your Tesla and being able to relax while you enjoy using it is valuable. For some, this isn't a thing because they see a car as a tool to get from point A to point B. But for many, their cars are much more than that.
I created a thread to help educate Tesla owners about clear bra technology so they could make a more informed choice about having it installed or not. You can read about it here: Self-healing Paint Protection Film: What is it does it work? [explained with video] Feel free to post any questions you may have and I am happy to answer them.
I created a thread to help educate Tesla owners about clear bra technology so they could make a more informed choice about having it installed or not. You can read about it here: Self-healing Paint Protection Film: What is it does it work? [explained with video] Feel free to post any questions you may have and I am happy to answer them.
brucet999
Active Member
Somewhat off topic, but what can anyone tell me about using a car cover? I won't have a garage for the first 12 months after taking delivery of my MS with Pano roof, and I don't have budget to wrap the whole car. So with clear bra on the front clip and nano treatment on the rest of the paint, can I use the Tesla cover without scratching the paint? I can envision folding the sides of the cover onto the top, then folding (not dragging) the cover from back to front and storing it in the frunk.
Similar threads
