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Xpeng begins 2,284 mile cross-country "FSD" drive

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
6,979
7,986
Terre Haute, IN USA
Xpeng has started a cross-country "FSD" drive in China:

"A fleet of Xpeng P7s is currently driving from Guangzhou, China, to Beijing, on a navigation-assisted autonomous driving expedition. The journey began on March 19th, will conclude on the 26th, and is covering a total distance of 2,284 miles (3,675 km) across six provinces in China.

Xpeng's goal is to demonstrate the performance of its newly released autonomous driving assistance function called Navigation Guided Pilot (NGP). The system will certainly be fully tested as the plan is to have the vehicles, driven by members of the media and other 3rd parties, use NGP for 1,954 miles (3,145 km) of highway driving. That represents more than 85% of the entire trip from Guangzhou to Beijing."

Results so far:

Day 1:

On the first day, the vehicles traveled from Guangzhou to Shantou and covered 236 miles (380 km). The fleet was able to drive the 236-mile route with an average of only 1.05 human driver intervention per every 100 miles driven (.65 times every 100 km).

More stats from day one:
  • Lane Changing & Overtaking Success Rate: 93.45%
  • Highway Ramp Entering & Exiting Success Rate: 83.76%
  • Tunnel Passing Through Success Rate: 99.65%

Day 2:

On the second day, the convoy traveled from Shantou to Quanzhou and covered 173 miles (279 km). The fleet was able to drive the route with an average of only 1.37 human driver intervention per every 100 miles driven (.85 times every 100 km).

More stats from day two:
  • Lane Changing & Overtaking Success Rate: 86.05%
  • Highway Ramp Entering & Exiting Success Rate: 85.00%
  • Tunnel Passing Through Success Rate: 91.23%
More info on Xpeng's NGP system:

"Xpeng's XPILOT 3.0's NGP provides navigation-assisted autonomous driving is a sophisticated suite of advanced driver's assist systems and can navigate from point A to B, based on the navigation route set by the driver. The system is only available on highways covered by high-precision maps in China, which are actually plentiful. NGP cannot navigate on secondary and tertiary streets that have not been mapped with high-precision.

Xpeng’s XPILOT 3.0 hardware is also very impressive, and integrates 12 ultrasonic sensors, 5 high-precision Bosch 5th generation millimeter-wave radars, 13 autonomous driving cameras, and uses NVIDIA Drive Xavier, which is NVIDIA’s most advanced autonomous vehicle chip, as well as QUALCOMM’s top-line in-vehicle processor, the Snapdragon 820A."


It sounds to me like NGP is Xpeng's version of Tesla's Navigate on Autopilot.
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,127
2,483
Los Gatos, CA
Watched a video on the XPeng P7 and that feature is just navigate on autopilot basically.. the UI is pretty much a ripoff from Tesla.

The car has probably 2x the sensors and cameras that our cars have though.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,404
7,243
Visalia, CA
...1.05 human driver intervention per every 100 miles driven (.65 times every 100 km)...

That sounds terrible when comparing to Waymo's disengagement of once with every 29,944 miles.

Its hardware:

12 ultrasonars
5 radars
13 cameras
NVIDIA Drive Xavier chip
QUALCOM Snapdragon 820A

It sounds like it follows Tesla in skipping LIDAR.

That means it could have the same Tesla's problem with hitting stationary obstacles.
 

Buckminster

Active Member
Aug 29, 2018
2,993
14,890
UK
Are they in convoy and spreading the lead car disengagements across several cars to reduce the mean?

If so, they are cleverer than I thought. I have a small number of shares - perhaps I will double down.
 

Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,404
7,243
Visalia, CA
Youtuber Wheelsboy did a test drive and said toward the end that the nagging nanny system has both Tesla's torque style as well as an interior driver-facing camera (GM cruise's style) which would be activated over the air later. The camera nanny system would certainly make NTSB happy.

The NGP (Navigation Guided Pilot) price in China is about $3,000 which is 3 times less than Tesla FSD over there. But FSD can drive on city roads while NGP can't so I am not sure the price comparison is valid.

Tesla is accusing Xpeng of stealing the source code from former Tesla employee Guangzhi Cao who left Tesla to work for Xpeng.
 
Last edited:
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diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
6,979
7,986
Terre Haute, IN USA
That sounds terrible when comparing to Waymo's disengagement of once with every 29,944 miles.

Its hardware:

12 ultrasonars
5 radars
13 cameras
NVIDIA Drive Xavier chip
QUALCOM Snapdragon 820A

It sounds like it follows Tesla in skipping LIDAR.

That means it could have the same Tesla's problem with hitting stationary obstacles.

Well, Xpeng's NGP is a ripoff of Tesla's NOA and GM's SuperCruise. And like those systems, it is also L2. It is just a L2 "hands-free" highway driving system. Waymo is L4. It was also designed from the ground up to be fully autonomous from the start. And Waymo has been improving the system for years, hence the really good disengagement rate.
 

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
6,979
7,986
Terre Haute, IN USA
So Waymo has a fleet of 600 cars. So each car has an average disengagement rate of 49 miles That doesn't sound too impressive

No. That is completely incorrect. You do not divide the disengagement rate by the number of cars. The disengagement rate of 1 per 30,000 miles is the average for each car.

Here is the raw data. Waymo had 145 cars that reported autonomous miles to the CA DMV. (The rest of the fleet either did not drive any miles or is outside of CA so they don't report to the CA DMV). You can see for yourself that most cars did thousands of autonomous miles with ZERO disengagements. So each car does not have a disengagement rate of 49 miles.

VINDisengagementsMiles
2C4RC1K70HR797365
0​
0.1​
2C4RC1K77HR833889
0​
3.1​
2C4RC1K7XHR833885
0​
3.1​
2C4RC1K79HR833778
0​
3.2​
2C4RC1K70HR805481
0​
6.8​
2C4RC1K73HR786120
0​
14​
SADHW2S17M1602661
0​
19.9​
SADHW2S15M1X06468
0​
26.4​
2C4RC1K71HR833838
0​
38​
2C4RC1K71HR822192
0​
41.3​
2C4RC1K75HR786121
0​
71.8​
2C4RC1K7XHR822207
0​
77.9​
2C4RC1K71HR805523
0​
95.7​
2C4RC1K78HR833870
0​
105.3​
2C4RC1K73HR805488
0​
108.3​
2C4RC1K75HR805489
0​
114​
SADHW2S15M1X06484
0​
121.5​
2C4RC1K75HR805508
0​
122​
2C4RC1K79HR786123
0​
137.6​
2C4RC1K74HR797367
0​
144.5​
2C4RC1K75HR534658
0​
148.8​
2C4RC1K71HR822208
0​
149.2​
2C4RC1K78HR805485
0​
185.5​
2C4RC1K7XHR833756
0​
193.1​
2C4RC1K77HR534676
0​
202.1​
2C4RC1K76HR805467
0​
204.7​
2C4RC1K76HR824259
0​
213.6​
2C4RC1K75HR833857
0​
224.4​
SADHW2S12M1X06474
0​
228.5​
2C4RC1K77HR786122
0​
279.9​
2C4RC1K75HR833759
0​
284.5​
2C4RC1K74HR827242
0​
358.6​
2C4RC1K75HR797295
0​
370.1​
2C4RC1K78HR534699
0​
388.1​
2C4RC1K71HR833810
0​
404.3​
2C4RC1K78HR534637
0​
409​
2C4RC1K78HR797386
0​
429.5​
2C4RC1K76HR797399
0​
435.5​
2C4RC1K73HR833856
0​
533.5​
2C4RC1K73HR822193
0​
547.2​
2C4RC1K75HR822194
0​
607.9​
2C4RC1K73HR827264
0​
619​
2C4RC1K70HR797415
0​
650.2​
2C4RC1K79HR797378
0​
727.2​
2C4RC1K71HR833841
0​
767.7​
2C4RC1K72HR833816
0​
779.6​
2C4RC1K73HR797375
0​
825​
2C4RC1K74HR534666
0​
839.1​
2C4RC1K74HR797322
0​
841.2​
2C4RC1K72HR824243
0​
844.7​
2C4RC1K7XHR534641
0​
945.4​
2C4RC1K73HR534710
0​
971.6​
2C4RC1K70HR797317
0​
978​
2C4RC1K74HR797353
0​
1072.6​
2C4RC1K77HR833858
0​
1111.8​
2C4RC1K7XHR534672
0​
1145.4​
2C4RC1K73HR833873
0​
1168.6​
2C4RC1K70HR534695
0​
1266.6​
2C4RC1K70HR534650
0​
1299.1​
2C4RC1K78HR695697
0​
1344.6​
2C4RC1K7XHR833854
0​
1385.1​
2C4RC1K73HR833808
0​
1396.2​
2C4RC1K75HR827234
0​
1420.3​
2C4RC1K75HR827265
0​
1426.8​
2C4RC1K74HR534652
0​
1531.1​
2C4RC1K75HR805461
0​
1573.1​
2C4RC1K79HR534677
0​
1589.5​
2C4RC1K76HR805453
0​
1634.2​
2C4RC1K77HR534693
0​
1677.6​
2C4RC1K72HR805465
0​
1719.9​
2C4RC1K76HR833785
0​
2013.2​
2C4RC1K7XHR695698
0​
2653.6​
2C4RC1K70HR534664
0​
2658.6​
2C4RC1K77HR534659
0​
2679​
2C4RC1K76HR797354
0​
2778.7​
2C4RC1K78HR695702
0​
2833.8​
2C4RC1K71HR534673
0​
2887.6​
2C4RC1K76HR534698
1​
2944.6​
2C4RC1K77HR534662
0​
2945​
2C4RC1K75HR695706
1​
3033.3​
2C4RC1K73HR534674
0​
3076​
2C4RC1K77HR534645
0​
3131.5​
2C4RC1K75HR695690
0​
3189.1​
2C4RC1K72HR534701
0​
3275.7​
2C4RC1K76HR534670
0​
3356.2​
2C4RC1K71HR534687
0​
3461.2​
2C4RC1K76HR534703
0​
3702.5​
2C4RC1K74HR695700
0​
3774.3​
2C4RC1K73HR797361
0​
3974.3​
2C4RC1K70HR833877
0​
3980.3​
2C4RC1K73HR695705
0​
4026.9​
2C4RC1K7XHR534705
1​
4238.5​
2C4RC1K72HR534696
0​
4438.5​
2C4RC1K74HR805516
3​
5064.2​
2C4RC1K76HR695696
0​
5088.5​
2C4RC1K76HR833835
0​
5167​
2C4RC1K76HR534653
0​
5201.4​
2C4RC1K7XHR805486
0​
5388.3​
2C4RC1K73HR534691
0​
5388.4​
2C4RC1K70HR534681
0​
5598.4​
2C4RC1K71HR695699
1​
6100.3​
2C4RC1K70HR805478
0​
6277​
2C4RC1K72HR836179
0​
6300.8​
2C4RC1K75HR797345
1​
6463.7​
2C4RC1K72HR797318
0​
6488.5​
2C4RC1K72HR534665
0​
6509.4​
2C4RC1K7XHR833787
0​
6690.2​
2C4RC1K79HR824255
0​
6754​
2C4RC1K7XHR827231
0​
7010.2​
2C4RC1K72HR827238
0​
7432.3​
2C4RC1K77HR805512
2​
7609.7​
2C4RC1K78HR833769
0​
7796.2​
2C4RC1K78HR833867
0​
8384.3​
2C4RC1K78HR805518
0​
8490.2​
2C4RC1K7XHR797308
0​
8589.6​
2C4RC1K73HR534660
0​
8918.9​
2C4RC1K73HR833758
0​
9163.7​
2C4RC1K79HR833859
1​
9243.3​
2C4RC1K74HR805466
0​
9477.8​
2C4RC1K70HR833796
1​
9941​
2C4RC1K71HR797343
0​
9965​
2C4RC1K73HR797330
0​
10014.5​
2C4RC1K78HR797405
0​
10142.5​
2C4RC1K7XHR827262
0​
10302.5​
2C4RC1K73HR797389
0​
10376.9​
2C4RC1K79HR822215
1​
10584.3​
2C4RC1K7XHR805455
2​
10591.8​
2C4RC1K77HR833827
0​
10997.1​
2C4RC1K75HR812331
0​
11702.2​
2C4RC1K73HR797358
0​
11796.6​
2C4RC1K73HR833842
1​
11822.8​
2C4RC1K78HR797355
0​
12102.7​
2C4RC1K7XHR797325
1​
12252.2​
2C4RC1K76HR797404
2​
12928.2​
2C4RC1K70HR827271
1​
13079.3​
2C4RC1K70HR797379
0​
13227.5​
2C4RC1K74HR805497
0​
13717.8​
2C4RC1K78HR833772
0​
13932​
2C4RC1K76HR822205
0​
14522.1​
2C4RC1K7XHR822188
0​
14947.6​
2C4RC1K74HR833879
0​
15439.3​
2C4RC1K75HR797362
0​
16047.2​
2C4RC1K74HR827239
0​
16757​
2C4RC1K78HR797324
1​
17126.1​
2C4RC1K79HR797381
0​
17269.9​

Source: Disengagement Reports - California DMV
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,404
7,243
Visalia, CA
Don't think I'd want to be that 0.35%. Disengagement in a tunnel? Would love to see that one. Strange to disengage in such a confined/controlled space.

I guess the tunnel's challenges are: No GPS signals, No Cell Signals.

Tesla Autopilot/FSD don't work in some tunnels either.
 

ThomasD

Member
Nov 22, 2019
861
372
florida
I am talking about the fleet over all. In every area they operate in. Every area they test in. With or without passengers. With or without a test driver. Currently they have cars in Florida, California, Washington, Michigan and Arizona. So across their entire operational areas the disengagement rate is 29,000 miles per each car?
 
Last edited:

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
6,979
7,986
Terre Haute, IN USA
I am talking about the fleet over all. In every area they operate in. Every area they test in. With or without passengers. With or without a test driver

And? The cars in CA have a disengagement rate of 1 per 30,000 miles for each car, so it is not possible that the disengagement rate for the entire fleet is 1 per 49 miles. You are making a math error. The disengagement rate is already an average for each car. So you cannot divide it again by the 600 cars.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
9,936
4,850
Xpeng has started a cross-country "FSD" drive in China:

"A fleet of Xpeng P7s is currently driving from Guangzhou, China, to Beijing, on a navigation-assisted autonomous driving expedition. The journey began on March 19th, will conclude on the 26th, and is covering a total distance of 2,284 miles (3,675 km) across six provinces in China.

...

It sounds to me like NGP is Xpeng's version of Tesla's Navigate on Autopilot.
This sounds more like the 2,995 mile cannon ball run (in 57:48 hrs) Alex Roy did on AP back in 2015. They said AP was engaged 96% of the trip:
We Set A Cross-Country Record In A Tesla That Drove Itself
He did other similar trips since then:
Alex Roy - Wikipedia

Another group did 2,835 miles in 48:10 hours, and did use NOA, although they didn't list a specific percentage of AP usage (only says "the overwhelming majority").
Tesla Model 3 Sets New Cannonball Run Record For EVs

As you mention NGP is XPeng's version of NOA (the similar naming is not an accident, Nio calls theirs NOP), which is a highway-only L2 feature.

Note also that XPeng's version is extremely map based (it depends heavily on HD maps) so is more similar to Supercruise in this regard. I remember watching a review, where there are areas where NOA could work with the Tesla, but NGP couldn't run because the area was not HD mapped yet (even though the Amap GPS navigation map XPeng was using was much better than Tesla's Baidu maps).

It's not the "FSD" drive that Elon promised, which was supposed to be 100% disengagement free start to finish (which necessarily would include the city/local bits also). So I think your title is a bit misleading. It's more like "NOA" drive, not "FSD" drive.
 
Last edited:

ThomasD

Member
Nov 22, 2019
861
372
florida
What are the disengagement rates outside of California If each car has a disengagement rate of 29,000 miles I wonder why they are taking so long to bring this nationwide.
 

diplomat33

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
6,979
7,986
Terre Haute, IN USA
What are the disengagement rates outside of California If each car has a disengagement rate of 29,000 miles I wonder why they are taking so long to bring this nationwide.

The short answer is that Waymo still has some things to work out before they can roll out nationwide. An average disengagement of 1 per 29,000 miles is great but it does not necessarily mean you are ready to roll out nationally yet. Waymo is very careful to test thoroughly before deploying robotaxis in an area to make sure it really is safe enough first.
 

PhantomX

Member
Sep 29, 2016
427
377
Irvine
1 per 29000 is still 3.4E-5, so perhaps Waymo wants to get to 1E-9 or better in term of risk, similar to catastrophic event risk for an airplane. I would think a L4 or L5 should get close to that, since we don't know whether the disengagement is triggered to prevent minor or major incidents.
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,404
7,243
Visalia, CA
....we don't know whether the disengagement is triggered to prevent minor or major incidents.

The report does require the reason for a disengagement such as:

Test DriverStreetDisengage for unwanted maneuver of the vehicle that was undesirable under the circumstances

AV SystemHighwayDisengage for adverse weather conditions experienced during testing

Without disabling the system when it's compromised in bad weather, the potential accident could be minor in slow, traffic jam speed, or major if the speed was at 90MPH
 
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