X's large windscreen vs S's panoramic roof

[sigurdi]

The model S panoramic roof is cold in the winter, quite some Norwegian do isolate it part of the year. Check out Bjørns winter driving videos.
If the Model X or S had the thichness and waight of a shuttle window it woud be a top heavy slow car. ;-)
Multiple layer of glass, with isolating space of argon is used to make isolated windows.
We normaly use windows with 3 layers in our hauses.
They have 2 isolating spaces (between the glass) with argon gass or similar.

The window area is around 5-10% of the hause surface and still 20-40% of the heat loss in the winter.
(20% with 3 layer, 40 with older 2 or some old 3 layor)

Not many cars with 2 or 3 layor isolated glass.
Space shuttle have 3 layor glass, or Glass-Cheramic.
Outer glass is Fused Silica glass, and the most exspensive of all glass made of pure silica dioxide.
Inner glass is alumino-silicate and can withstand the shuttle's cabin pressure.
Middle panel is a thick fused silica panel and capable of both heat and pressure.
Air space filled with argon or similar is used for isolation.
Price - more than a Model S.
And yes window area front and panoramic is a problem with heat loss when the Temperature gets below -10C (14F)
Quite normal we have some weeks with 0F to -15F (-17 to -25C)

 

[Hugh Mannity]

sigurdi thanks for posting your thoughts on the cold, where I live it goes to -30, it is rare and does not stay long but it does happen, most of the winter will go to -20 on our cold days

 

[sigurdi]

Most part of the front window is not big problem, the warm air from the heater bloks the cold air comming down.
Falcon dors looks easy to isolate as Bjørns do the sunroof. ;-)
The area right abow the driver and passenger head can be a problem if cold air "falls" down right on the pearsons sitting there.
Cold air teavel down, warm up, so quite possible we need to make some isolating maths to attach on the coldes days.
This is not something spesial for model S or X, all cars we use get realy cold window serfaces in the middle of winter.
New Diesel cars is quite often equipt with diesel heaters because the engine is not delivering enouch heat in the start if a trip.

Updated:
The main reason the panoramic roof do not get realy hot in the sunnlight is the UV protection/blocker film. It reflects the heat wawes from the sun, and they is not led into the car or heating up the glass.
Sorry no cold UV wawes i the winter so this protection do not work on cold letting through.

 

[Waverider]

I'll believe the UV blocking tint when I see it. I'm definitely going to make sure my test drive is in the summer around 2:00 in the afternoon.

 

[sigurdi]

Just go to a 3M dealer or any other that deliver protection films for the car or housing.
This is just one exsample:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Window_Film/Solutions/Markets-Products/Automotive/


I says:

• Interior protection: blocks up to 99% of harmful UV rays to reduce fading of your car's interior

• Helps maintain car's original appearance: window tint allows 30% to 50% of the light into your car

• UV/Skin protection: provides SPF of up to 1000, a Skin Cancer Foundation recommended product

 

[EchoDelta]

That may need Ludicrous defroster/ defogging power.

Also I hope not all the windshield blocks toll passes and the likes.

 

[Oyvind.H]

Cars like the Citroen C4 has the sun visor integrated in the roof cross beam.
In pictures it looks like the Model X will have sun visors in the A-pillar. I must say I`m looking forward to see how the A-pillar solution works. Maybe it connects to the center of the roof cross beam to stay rigid?

 

[MrBoylan]

That may need Ludicrous defroster/ defogging power.

Also I hope not all the windshield blocks toll passes and the likes.

EZ-PASS and similar systems use Radio Frequency transponders, not optical systems. They shouldn't have any problem with glass, even if it's opaque.

 

[scottf200]

Cars like the Citroen C4 has the sun visor integrated in the roof cross beam.
In pictures it looks like the Model X will have sun visors in the A-pillar. I must say I`m looking forward to see how the A-pillar solution works. Maybe it connects to the center of the roof cross beam to stay rigid?

They have a pretty nice implementation with a sliding individual (driver and passenger) and built in sun visor.
Image: http://i.imgur.com/gH2ic2t.png

 

[vandacca]

They have a pretty nice implementation with a sliding individual (driver and passenger) and built in sun visor.
View attachment 93771

The double-mirror is interesting. Low-tech solution to see over the back-seat passengers?

 

[scottf200]

The double-mirror is interesting. Low-tech solution to see over the back-seat passengers?

In my current SUV, there is one and I believe they call it a "conversation mirror".

 

[EchoDelta]

EZ-PASS and similar systems use Radio Frequency transponders, not optical systems. They shouldn't have any problem with glass, even if it's opaque.

Yeah, "shouldn't" , but they seem to do:
I suggest looking at relevant model S threads:

This is a fairly common issue (there's a few threads on it). There's something up with the windshield in the Model S that causes this with various transponders. I now have mine mounted in the lower air dam/grille, but it still only reads sometimes.

Recently this one- EZPass included amongst those singled out:
Warning to model S owners in Colorado.

 

[Saghost]

EZ-PASS and similar systems use Radio Frequency transponders, not optical systems. They shouldn't have any problem with glass, even if it's opaque.

The glass itself is fine. However, Tesla and many other premium/luxury manufacturers have been putting an IR blocking film into their windshield designs which does generally block RF signals - creating issues for transponders and radar detectors mounted behind it. I imagine the X well have the same, though it may have some portals in the coating.

 

[MrBoylan]

Yeah, "shouldn't" , but they seem to do:
I suggest looking at relevant model S threads:

Hmm, did not know that. Thanks for sharing. Holding the EZ Pass out the window wouldn't be fun.

 

[aesculus]

Hmm, did not know that. Thanks for sharing. Holding the EZ Pass out the window wouldn't be fun.

I think I asked this before but why does anyone even have a transponder anymore? Mine died 2 years ago and I keep getting billed for every toll because of my registered plate and the cameras.

 

[Mark Z]

With the new windshield, drivers might want to consider the license plate transponder. Some may want nothing in the way of the expanded view. When deliveries start, the mounting options should be clear.

 

[aronth5]

A common concern raised by many over the Falcon Doors is snow. But what if Tesla was planning on including heating wires both on the panoramic glass above your head along with the glass in the top portion of the falcon doors?
This could be a significant help in minimizing the amount of snow build up since a good portion of the Model X top would be glass and in "some" circumstances you could melt and/or minimize snow buildup, reducing the dumping of snow inside.
Just a thought!

 

[MrBoylan]

I think I asked this before but why does anyone even have a transponder anymore? Mine died 2 years ago and I keep getting billed for every toll because of my registered plate and the cameras.

This probably varies by state. Some states will fine you or charge you a higher fee if the transponder tag is not read at the plaza. In NY, there was one particular toll plaza that repeatedly had trouble reading my EZ Pass transponder when I got on the thruway near Albany, but it read it fine on the exit. So invariably they would charge me the highest possible fee, assuming that I got on in Buffalo and was on the highway for 200 miles instead of the 6 miles (one exit) that I was actually on it. It was a $9 toll instead of 30 cents. To get credit, I had to notice the discrepancy on the bill and then send in a letter or call them to dispute the charge. Big waste of time. And I occasionally use that EZ Pass in multiple states on trips up and down the east coast so I'd hate to just assume that I will be billed properly - potentially by a third party service that has reciprocity with EZ Pass - if the transponder is not read. At least now I know that it might be an issue on the X (since it has been on the S) and I can keep an eye out for it.

- - - Updated - - -

With the new windshield, drivers might want to consider the license plate transponder. Some may want nothing in the way of the expanded view. When deliveries start, the mounting options should be clear.

Good point, Mark. it would be nice to keep that view completely unobstructed.

- - - Updated - - -

A common concern raised by many over the Falcon Doors is snow. But what if Tesla was planning on including heating wires both on the panoramic glass above your head along with the glass in the top portion of the falcon doors?
This could be a significant help in minimizing the amount of snow build up since a good portion of the Model X top would be glass and in "some" circumstances you could melt and/or minimize snow buildup, reducing the dumping of snow inside.
Just a thought!

View attachment 93840

It's a good thought. One that has been raised before, but still a good thought. I didn't see it listed as a feature in the Cold Weather Package description in the Design Studio shots that Mark and other Sig customers have shared with us. But we could still hope that it's a base feature on all cars or an as yet unpublicized feature of the cold weather package (one of the surprises we have in store)...

 

[AnOutsider]

It's a good thought. One that has been raised before, but still a good thought. I didn't see it listed as a feature in the Cold Weather Package description in the Design Studio shots that Mark and other Sig customers have shared with us. But we could still hope that it's a base feature on all cars or an as yet unpublicized feature of the cold weather package (one of the surprises we have in store)...

Warming those windows might also help with the odd temperature difference I tend to feel up toward the pano roof in colder temps.

 

[aesculus]

This probably varies by state. Some states will fine you or charge you a higher fee if the transponder tag is not read at the plaza. In NY, there was one particular toll plaza that repeatedly had trouble reading my EZ Pass transponder when I got on the thruway near Albany, but it read it fine on the exit. So invariably they would charge me the highest possible fee, assuming that I got on in Buffalo and was on the highway for 200 miles instead of the 6 miles (one exit) that I was actually on it. It was a $9 toll instead of 30 cents. To get credit, I had to notice the discrepancy on the bill and then send in a letter or call them to dispute the charge. Big waste of time. And I occasionally use that EZ Pass in multiple states on trips up and down the east coast so I'd hate to just assume that I will be billed properly - potentially by a third party service that has reciprocity with EZ Pass - if the transponder is not read. At least now I know that it might be an issue on the X (since it has been on the S) and I can keep an eye out for it.

That's a good point. Except for a couple of toll roads in So Cal our transponders in Nor Cal are just used for bridges. These are one way, single events so if they miss read the plate, somebody else is going to pay.:smile: