gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Yes, and making our voice/opinion heard right now might help sway Tesla as it has in other contexts in the past.
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Yes, and making our voice/opinion heard right now might help sway Tesla as it has in other contexts in the past.
You listed scheduled maintenance as being a seperate item on your punch list before, now you are claiming scheduled maintenance itself at 60k costs 1400-2000. It looks like you are playing with your statements and numbers for effect. You realize scheduled maintenance is a fixed cost and additional items (based on wear/condition etc) are added costs right?
Lets use your latest statement though as the legitimate numbers/information. Say it costs you 2k for the 60k mile service....This means that you paid 0 for the first 4 years/50k miles. This is not taking into consideration wear items such as tires, extra fluids (i.e. coolant, brake fluid etc).
By the time I get to 4 years, I have already paid $2800 in maintenance costs for each of my Roadsters in that same period (~$700 600+taxes/disposal fees/small parts * 4)...The "scheduled maintenance' on my Roadsters are probably not worth $600, but they can charge whatever they want because only they can do it (or warranty is voided & there are no maintenance manuals for Tesla)
You could get this all done at an indy shop for significantly less. With your M5 it is your own choice to pay close to 10% of the value of your vehicle, for maintenance at the dealership.
With Tesla you are forced to have them to do all the work.
Is it just me or do electric cars break Edmunds. I always break it with with the LEAF, Focus Electric, and Model S. It appears to be the 'engine' category that breaks the page.
Heh, I didn't try an EV since I was looking to compare against ICE maintenance costs, but doing the LEAF TCO worked for me just now.
2012 Nissan Leaf Electric 1-speed Direct Drive True Cost to Own
Thanks. I always put it into compare, and get the link at the bottom. Compare is where I was seeing the problem.
It does not show which repairs and maintenance is required...how do we know what the numbers mean if it does not give us a breakdown (even by category engine, interior, electrical) etc...Furthermore Tires are not even part of the equation and not included in maintenance or repairs. Hard to take this as a true representation of true costs when there are glaring deficiencies.
2011 Tesla Roadster Electric 1-speed Direct Drive True Cost to Own
$45 in taxes? Yea right
Yea, no shock the Roadster has no data. Tesla isn't even selectable as a car from the main Edmunds TCO page (presumably because they know they have no data on that car).
So, what do you suggest? Barring a better suggestion/source, I'm taking their numbers over our random anecdotal musings. I have no idea why you want breakdowns of types of maintenance. The point was understanding typical yearly maintenance costs for various ICE competitors for the Model S.
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I listed at least three sample points, Tires are not listed in the maintenance or repairs section. There should be more supporting factual information rather than just whimsical maintenance/repair numbers that do not even show a sample set of components that may need to be repaired or replaced in x year. You realize these numbers are pure speculation, yet you believe they are valid when we are having discussion based on facts (assuming that the OP was honest and based on the OP's information).
Why do you have so much faith in this Edmunds algorthim?
Because such information about cars is their business. And I don't necessarily have faith in them per se, but I certainly have more faith in them than our random anecdotal postings.
BTW, KBB has a similar calculator: 5-Year Cost To Own - Kelley Blue Book
Also, if you can find any site, any where, that has (for multiple vendors) breakdowns of components that "may need to be repaired or replaced in x year" then by all means post it. I have $20 that says you won't find one. You're asking for the unreasonable.
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Here's another TCO site: New Car Total Cost to Own | NADAguides TCO | Car Value Depreciation, Fuel & Repair Costs
Edit: Motortrend has it as well, but you have to dig into the details on the specific car of interest:
New 2012 2013 Car Prices, Photos, Reviews & Specs - Motor Trend Magazine
Here's an example for a E-class sedan:
2012 Mercedes-Benz E-Class E550 Sedan Cost Of Ownership - 2012 Mercedes E Class E 550 Insurance, Maintenance & Repair Costs - Motor Trend Magazine
Shockingly, none of these sites break down the specific types of maintenance or repairs.
Edit: Motortrend has it as well, but you have to dig into the details on the specific car of interest:
New 2012 2013 Car Prices, Photos, Reviews & Specs - Motor Trend Magazine
Here's an example for a E-class sedan:
2012 Mercedes-Benz E-Class E550 Sedan Cost Of Ownership - 2012 Mercedes E Class E 550 Insurance, Maintenance & Repair Costs - Motor Trend Magazine
Shockingly, none of these sites break down the specific types of maintenance or repairs.
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Those motortrend numbers look more legitimate than the Edmunds numbers....regardless to get this back on topic that E550 you posted costs $2703 over 5 years for maintenance....The Tesla Model S costs 3k over 5 years and significantly more over 4 years (if the $600 all in figure holds up)...From my experience the $600 is just for the labor and Tesla charges parts such as wipers and other bits separately.
It is not that difficult to find out maintenance costs (and what is included) from each manufacturer and compare them. We know that vehicles require certain standardized (i.e. scheduled) maintenance at x mileage or y amount of time. Not exactly the most complicated thing to find out.
strider
Active Member
But as I mentioned, it is in fact illegal for them to do this. It's just that no one has called them on it. While Roadster owners have generally been supportive of the company, once Tesla expands beyond EV-fanatics to the mass-market it will just be a matter of time. The simplest thing for them to do would be to make maintenance free during the warranty period which would put them in compliance w/ the law.
EDIT: Heh, just as I posted this the ad at the bottom of the page was about Toyota's 2 year/25k complimentary maintenance program...
You are very right. I doubt Tesla legal is dumb enough to test the law, especially since the Model S is all water cooled and the maintenance will be similar to the Leaf if not less. With the roadster's air cooled PEM and Motor, price, and limited run I can see why Tesla would take that chance.
not exactly....air suspension vs coil...panoramic sunroof vs hard roof....there will definitely be a different items checked and different consumables used depending on trim level of the Model S. The prices for Mercedes' at least are pretty standard (unless you have a V12, AMG or Diesel)
Attached are some typical prices for A Service & B Services (it does not matter if you are driving a C250 or a S550)
I was trying to figure this out myself and put together a spreadsheet to compare the costs against an ICE. You can tweak and see where the breakeven point is:
http://www.teslafuture.com/2012/06/20/electric-vs-gas-comparison-spreadsheet/
http://www.teslafuture.com/2012/06/20/electric-vs-gas-comparison-spreadsheet/
I'm not quite sure where you guys want Tesla to go on this issue. Where do they recoup the expenses of the service centers and repair personnel (rangers)? Maybe they can charge the repair cost to the huge fleet of other cars they have sold? So, Roadster owners, do we think that's a good idea to help the expansion of the EV? Maybe they just eat those costs for the first 5 years.? That would certainly make Tesla stronger - not. Maybe they should raise the base price of the Model S so it can cover the service centers and personnel? There goes the $50K price point. Every time somebody says Tesla should just give "that/this" to me, it makes Tesla weaker f they do it. Those that lived through the Roadster price increase almost universally screamed to high heaven. I think fortunately most of them stuck with the purchase and that's why I have my Roadster today. You are dealing with a small company that it trying to wedge its way into a tough market and leading the technology for production cars, so there are still plenty of unknowns out there that could bite them in the butt. Maybe $600 (which hasn't been announced yet as far as I know) is more than you've ever paid for service with any of your cars. I'd guess that means that this is the most you've ever paid for a car too. Given that, I think the noise level on service charges should be lowered just a bit. And as long as I've exposed my old fart-ism I might as well say I don't understand why anyone needs a 1000 package of songs to listen to their theme music in a car. If you love that many songs you're not very discriminating. You want every bauble ever put on a car in the first model year of the Tesla Model S. You want a Fort Knox vault to store your stuff in, as long as it's easy for you to get in, but impossible for anyone else to open. I think a lot of you are living down to you reputation. But I'm an old fart, so what do I know? 
I'm not quite sure where you guys want Tesla to go on this issue. Where do they recoup the expenses of the service centers and repair personnel (rangers)? Maybe they can charge the repair cost to the huge fleet of other cars they have sold? So, Roadster owners, do we think that's a good idea to help the expansion of the EV? Maybe they just eat those costs for the first 5 years.? That would certainly make Tesla stronger - not. Maybe they should raise the base price of the Model S so it can cover the service centers and personnel? There goes the $50K price point. Every time somebody says Tesla should just give "that/this" to me, it makes Tesla weaker f they do it. Those that lived through the Roadster price increase almost universally screamed to high heaven. I think fortunately most of them stuck with the purchase and that's why I have my Roadster today. You are dealing with a small company that it trying to wedge its way into a tough market and leading the technology for production cars, so there are still plenty of unknowns out there that could bite them in the butt. Maybe $600 (which hasn't been announced yet as far as I know) is more than you've ever paid for service with any of your cars. I'd guess that means that this is the most you've ever paid for a car too. Given that, I think the noise level on service charges should be lowered just a bit. And as long as I've exposed my old fart-ism I might as well say I don't understand why anyone needs a 1000 package of songs to listen to their theme music in a car. If you love that many songs you're not very discriminating. You want every bauble ever put on a car in the first model year of the Tesla Model S. You want a Fort Knox vault to store your stuff in, as long as it's easy for you to get in, but impossible for anyone else to open. I think a lot of you are living down to you reputation. But I'm an old fart, so what do I know?
I do not think it makes Tesla significantly weaker to include maintenance on Model S Sig Performances. I see your point for the base models but not for the higher level trim packages. Tesla is making a decent profit on the Sig Performances (just like the Roadster Sport's). This is coming from someone who loves Tesla and owns 3 roadsters, how many times can we keep cutting Tesla a break? If Tesla wants to take on normal car companies, why are customers being nickle and dimed? Name another 160k car (Roadster) that does not include a loaner car when in for service? Fine it was their first car, they are a new company that is learning. Small company or not, Tesla needs to be competitive with their maintenance/service program on the Model S. Heck even Fisker (who is much weaker financially than Tesla offers free loaners and maintenance) Enough is enough!
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Tesla has said that maintenance on an EV is lower than an ICE car so I think we're simply trying to quantify that. Though I suppose on a technicality that could simply refer to the fewer things to maintain, not that it's going to cost less.
NigelM
Recovering Member
{{{TESLA}}}, your customers are price sensitive when it comes to service. Some more than others.
OK that's done, now I'm off to start a old-farts sub-forum with *rsquared99*......:biggrin:
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