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To be fair, Tesla has repeatedly made boneheaded design decisions. Maybe it was to save money. Maybe they thought it looked better. Maybe they ran out of time.
See my signature.
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Here's a video at night of the Model 3. Confirmed red and small (obviously, this design works better at night):
A bit of a summary:
Tesla has different rear lighting designs outside of North America. They tend to have dedicated yellow/amber turn indicators outside of North America, but not within North America.
I do not understand why they do this. The non-North American behavior/design makes more sense to me.
At this point, it looks like all of the Model 3 RCs lack any rear yelllow/amber indicators whatsoever.
I find that lacking for a few reasons including:
I think it makes it harder for someone to quickly tell if they are seeing brake lights or hazard indicators.
(In both cases it appears that the same two red LED segments will illuminate.)
If someone "pumps the brakes" it looks a lot like flashing hazard lights.
Someone could counter-argue "well if you look for the CHMSL (center brake light) then you would be able to tell if it is brakes or hazard", but I think in a dangerous quick situation where someone is just giving a glance, they may not have time to consider if this model of car has a CHMSL, where it is located and if it is on or off. Many old cars don't have CHMSLs, and in newer cars they tend to be located in various places, so I don't think people look for them primarily... The seems to be an add-on indicator just to give a better chance for people to notice braking, not a primary indicator to instruct people behind what the other lights are supposed to mean.
Tesla has different rear lighting designs outside of North America. They tend to have dedicated yellow/amber turn indicators outside of North America, but not within North America.
I do not understand why they do this. The non-North American behavior/design makes more sense to me.
At this point, it looks like all of the Model 3 RCs lack any rear yelllow/amber indicators whatsoever.
I find that lacking for a few reasons including:
I think it makes it harder for someone to quickly tell if they are seeing brake lights or hazard indicators.
(In both cases it appears that the same two red LED segments will illuminate.)
If someone "pumps the brakes" it looks a lot like flashing hazard lights.
Someone could counter-argue "well if you look for the CHMSL (center brake light) then you would be able to tell if it is brakes or hazard", but I think in a dangerous quick situation where someone is just giving a glance, they may not have time to consider if this model of car has a CHMSL, where it is located and if it is on or off. Many old cars don't have CHMSLs, and in newer cars they tend to be located in various places, so I don't think people look for them primarily... The seems to be an add-on indicator just to give a better chance for people to notice braking, not a primary indicator to instruct people behind what the other lights are supposed to mean.
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Some other related threads:
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Amber / Yellow rear blinkers / turn signals | Tesla
Euro-style Taillight Retrofit | Tesla
Amber turn signals spotted
Amber / Yellow rear blinkers / turn signals | Tesla
Euro-style Taillight Retrofit | Tesla
alseTrick
Active Member
No point getting concerned about lighting based on phone camera footage, especially from led lights.
All cameras and especially phone cameras or dash cams have about half the dynamic range of your eyes and often only see half the intensity. Look up why leds seem to flicker in videos for more info.
The dynamic range issue means that sometime light are either darker or brighter than the camera is showing
All cameras and especially phone cameras or dash cams have about half the dynamic range of your eyes and often only see half the intensity. Look up why leds seem to flicker in videos for more info.
The dynamic range issue means that sometime light are either darker or brighter than the camera is showing
I just spotted this on Facebook:
I was like... Nope - not a Model 3... Has a yellow turn indicator !
I was like... Nope - not a Model 3... Has a yellow turn indicator !
I wrote this earlier today:
Red turn signal lights increase the chance of rear accidents by 5.3% in a statistically significant way. These are accidents you ostensibly have the least control over.
Kind of silly to tout "designed for 5-stars" and then include a purely stylistic/$$ choice that causes statistically more accidents.
5.3% is meaningful. And Tesla is taking its sweet time in reducing the cost for repairs. See this quote (source for 5.3% rate):
“In 2008, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, responsible for writing U.S. vehicle safety standards, released tentative findings that amber (‘yellow’) turn signals are up to 28% more effective at avoiding crashes than red ones,” wrote automotive author Daniel Stern on the website aCarPlace.com.
“Then, in 2009, they released preliminary findings that across all situations, including those in which turn signals don’t matter, vehicles with amber rear turn signals are 5.3% less likely to be hit from behind than otherwise-identical vehicles with red ones.
“That means amber turn signals were seen as being more effective at avoiding crashes than the center third brake light mandated in 1986, with a 4.3% crash avoidance,” he wrote.
Amber turn signals reduce more accidents than the dedicated center brake light. Yikes, Tesla. This was a bad call by all other American manufacturers and not a trend they should've followed. Did they save pennies by switching the light colors? They couldn't be motivated to lose even 0.1% of margin to reduce accidents by 5.3%?
A darn shame.
Red turn signal lights increase the chance of rear accidents by 5.3% in a statistically significant way. These are accidents you ostensibly have the least control over.
Kind of silly to tout "designed for 5-stars" and then include a purely stylistic/$$ choice that causes statistically more accidents.
5.3% is meaningful. And Tesla is taking its sweet time in reducing the cost for repairs. See this quote (source for 5.3% rate):
“In 2008, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, responsible for writing U.S. vehicle safety standards, released tentative findings that amber (‘yellow’) turn signals are up to 28% more effective at avoiding crashes than red ones,” wrote automotive author Daniel Stern on the website aCarPlace.com.
“Then, in 2009, they released preliminary findings that across all situations, including those in which turn signals don’t matter, vehicles with amber rear turn signals are 5.3% less likely to be hit from behind than otherwise-identical vehicles with red ones.
“That means amber turn signals were seen as being more effective at avoiding crashes than the center third brake light mandated in 1986, with a 4.3% crash avoidance,” he wrote.
Amber turn signals reduce more accidents than the dedicated center brake light. Yikes, Tesla. This was a bad call by all other American manufacturers and not a trend they should've followed. Did they save pennies by switching the light colors? They couldn't be motivated to lose even 0.1% of margin to reduce accidents by 5.3%?
A darn shame.
How could I have missed this? It looks like Yellow turn indicators were one of the upgrade options from the old April 1st projected options list...
$35,000 Base 60kWh RWD Model 3
---------------------------
$4,000 75kWh battery upgrade
$3,000 Dual motor all wheel drive
$3,000 Performance package (requires dual motor option)
$2,000 Ludicrous upgrade (requires performance & dual motor options)
$2,000 Full self driving mode (when available via OTA update)
$1,000 Ultra high fidelity sound
$1,000 All glass roof option
$1,000 Sub-zero weather package
$1,000 Towing package
$1,000 Performance wheel package
$1,000 Aero wheel package
$1,000 Ugly wheel package
$1,000 Larger rear trunk opening
$1,000 More headroom
$1,000 Tighter panel gaps
$1,000 Yellow turn signal upgrade (via OTA)
N/A Lifetime supercharging
N/A Doors that go "like this" (up and down)
$35,000 Base 60kWh RWD Model 3
---------------------------
$4,000 75kWh battery upgrade
$3,000 Dual motor all wheel drive
$3,000 Performance package (requires dual motor option)
$2,000 Ludicrous upgrade (requires performance & dual motor options)
$2,000 Full self driving mode (when available via OTA update)
$1,000 Ultra high fidelity sound
$1,000 All glass roof option
$1,000 Sub-zero weather package
$1,000 Towing package
$1,000 Performance wheel package
$1,000 Aero wheel package
$1,000 Ugly wheel package
$1,000 Larger rear trunk opening
$1,000 More headroom
$1,000 Tighter panel gaps
$1,000 Yellow turn signal upgrade (via OTA)
N/A Lifetime supercharging
N/A Doors that go "like this" (up and down)
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Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
Because it talks about how the current "solution" doesn't always have all 3 brake lights fully engaged while braking. For instance in that screen cap where the left blinker is on so the left brake light was off at that moment. It removes some of the brake light brightness.
melindav
☰ 2018
in a photo you don't see the left brake light. In real life, the turn signal IS the brake light. in all the time I've been driving, I've never been following someone with red taillights and been confused that they were slowing down or not just because their turn signal was on.
The whole amber argument beings safer than all red seems silly, especially when based on a single photo taken between 'blinks'.
Mishakim
Member
The issue, for me anyway, is not one of knowing whether they are braking, but whether they are turning. I've been behind cars that just blinked the brightness of one of their red brake lights, and unable to distinguish that blinking as really being a turn signal. It's mainly a problem with incandescent lights, as the brightness difference (and instantaneous transition) with LEDs is more noticeable, so that complaint may go away with time.
They used yellow/amber on Model X... And outside of North America is appears they use yellow/amber on Model S too... Does Model 3 get the "cheap looking" red only due to cost cutting?
In this photo:
If I glance at that, I don't know if to think "the left brake light is burnt out", or "maybe they are going to turn left".
Someone could even think the outer ring is the brake light, and they are indicating about to turn right.
I find it confusing. Yellow/amber makes it all a lot more obvious what is happening.
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Akikiki
A'-Lo-HA ! y'all
In this photo:
If I glance at that, I don't know if to think "the left brake light is burnt out", or "maybe they are going to turn left".
Someone could even think the outer ring in the brake light, and they are indicating about to turn right.
I find it confusing. Yellow/amber makes it all a lot more obvious what is happening.
I guess its just me, but I believe if the drivers would put their iPhone down, stop texting while they are driving and look at the road more than 4 seconds before turning back to the phone they could determine if one of those lights is flashing in anticipation of turning left or right. But what do I know. Okay, okay, you got me. Yellow/amber makes more sense. Now that you have my vote here you can proceed with forcing American manufacturer to adopt it. What? What's that you say? Hmmm. We could use this kind of logic fighting crime.
MarkeR2002
Member
Not sure why some are relating no yellow/amber to 'cheap' or confusing. I've always hated the yellow/amber look and usually change my cars bulb colors or even take out the amber insert in the housing. I love the rear only red lights, and glad the yellow front blinker is only amber when on.
Also, @TEG, you're looking at a still image. The video where that image came from looks a lot less confusing when the blinker is on.
Now, I do wish they would have just made the brakelight the whole outer ring, just brighter when braking. Oh well, looks bright enough in that image above.
Also, @TEG, you're looking at a still image. The video where that image came from looks a lot less confusing when the blinker is on.
Now, I do wish they would have just made the brakelight the whole outer ring, just brighter when braking. Oh well, looks bright enough in that image above.
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