Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!

[whitex]

You are inventing beliefs that are not founded upon reality. The specs for these screen Tesla used have already been posted on TMC and offer evidence that what you assert is not actually true. Their operating temperature range is -20 to 60 C, and are tested at -40 to 80 C at 90% RH (relative humidity).

Automotive spec parts go way beyond operating temperature range, they include how quickly they change, how many cycles they change, etc. Read more here:
Tesla's Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters

Are you saying that all those cars with yellow bands have somehow exceeded automotive grade specs, which is why the manufacturer refuses to replace them, or are you saying that Tesla chose to design cars that don't break only when operating in a climate controlled showroom, they just "forgot to tell customers"?

 

[Darren Donovan]

Why is it for Tesla to hire lawyers to "do what lawyers do" but intolerant for owners to hire a lawyer (or represent themselves) and "do what lawyers do"?

I tried trading in a car with yellow screen a couple of weeks ago, after the dealer found out about the screen, they would not trade it in until it's fixed, and not willing to hold the new car for me (eTrons are hot, the one that was available is gone now) or guarantee the trade-in value (since Tesla has no guaranteed timeline to fix it). So, I get screwed on resale value of my car, and opportunity to buy a new one, but according to you, it's ok, because Tesla is not intentionally trying to screw me, only accidentally because they gambled on something by shipping it without testing and it didn't work out?

I thought the same when I read his response. WTH? Typical fanboy defense of Tesla.

 

[SucreTease]

Why is it for Tesla to hire lawyers to "do what lawyers do" but intolerant for owners to hire a lawyer (or represent themselves) and "do what lawyers do"?

That is a very good point. However, I never said one shouldn't have their own attorney in such an encounter. I merely suggested being more tolerant and not getting into a legal dispute to begin with.

Nevertheless, there is a tremendous amount of hostile and toxic negativity on this and related threads.

 

[Tam]

...I merely suggested being more tolerant and not getting into a legal dispute to begin with.

Nevertheless, there is a tremendous amount of hostile and toxic negativity on this and related threads.

I think the best way to prevent the boiling point is: publically admitting problems and encouraging customers' input and participation.

Hostility is increased when Tesla treats its consumers as enemies rather than problem solvers.

 

[ucmndd]

I think the best way to prevent the boiling point is: publically admitting problems and encouraging customers' input and participation.

Hostility is increased when Tesla treats its consumers as enemies rather than problem solvers.

Totally agree. So many of Tesla’s problems are not the problems themselves, but the information black hole.

Open and transparent communication buys SO MUCH goodwill.

 

[whitex]

That is a very good point. However, I never said one shouldn't have their own attorney in such an encounter. I merely suggested being more tolerant and not getting into a legal dispute to begin with.

Nevertheless, there is a tremendous amount of hostile and toxic negativity on this and related threads.

I think it's not hard to conclude that the negativity is created mostly by Tesla's responses to this - people don't like to be lied to, given BS stories, or have companies weasel out of warranties. When a company tells you "our lawyers determined warranty does not apply to this" - that is a definitive statement basically seen as being shown as a middle finger. Such definitive statements are not conducive to people giving them time, on the contrary, such statements stir up people to fight it now, while their cars are still under warranty - going to court can take years, so even if you have 3 years warranty left, you should start the fight now. Even if they add "we're working on a fix, and if it works, we might someday give it to you out of the goodness of our heart", that just adds to the rage. Imagine your employer said "the company lawyers have determined we don't owe any money for the work you did, but if we get some extra money someday we'll give you some".

 

[jrwaters1]

Hi all!

I come bearing news on how to get your yellow screens replaced.

Its surprisingly simple. Tesla participates in a program called NCDS which is binding arbitration for Tesla but NOT for the individual. This is a remediation option prior to true binding arbitration. This means that even if you lose you can still pursue other options later but Tesla has to abide by the ruling. If you follow my points below, you should be able to get your screen replaced using this method.

I went to their website here: NCDS - Automotive Warranty Disputes and filed a claim. All I wrote was a few short sentences describing my screen and explaining that Tesla refuses to fix it. About 2 days later I received an email confirming the claim is eligible and notifying me I would be assigned an arbitrator and a date for a conference call.

I received an email and a letter via the mail a few days later confirming my arbitration date for 3 weeks away. Shortly after, I received an email with Tesla's response. Their response was quite fascinating, in that they 100% admitted the design flaw, but are trying to place it as both "wear and tear" being caused by "environmental conditions" and just a "cosmetic issue". Their response is here: Tesla Response . The interesting bits are mainly on pages 4 and 5.

Shortly after I was provided their response, I replied to my claims administrator and sent her a written response providing dates and times I spoke with individuals, with their names, contrary to Tesla's representative's claim that I never contacted them over this issue to seek a repair. I also provided both photos of the issue to show it impacts while the screen is on, and a copy of an invoice (here: Tesla Repair) showing that they previously claimed it as warranty. This was forwarded to Tesla.

On the day of the call, my husband and I joined with the arbitrator and Tesla's lawyer. The discussion was short, only 30 minutes and had a few interesting notes:

* The discussion partially focused around whether it was a design "characteristic" as opposed to "flaw"
* Tesla claimed it was an environmental issue and provided no proof thereof. The arbitrator dug into this and made it clear he was unimpressed with their claim that had no backing. The lawyer on Tesla's side claimed they had the documents but could not provide them "because of NDAs and such"
* Tesla has _not_ issued a TSB(technical service bulletin) for this issue. That was another sticking point for our arbitrator.
* Tesla's lawyer specifically called out that the flaw impacts every model S/X of that "vintage", but then stated that not every one will exhibit the problem.
* I brought up during the call that I had called the service center that morning and they claimed to have no knowledge on dates for the fix. This was in direct response to Tesla's representative claiming that the fix was actively rolling out to service centers across the country, and had been for 2 weeks.
* interesting note about refresh: Their lawyer admitted that they are now completing final details on their refresh that is around the corner, and this won't be a problem for those vehicles.


Once we ended the call, it took about a week to get the decision in my email: decision . All told, this took MAYBE 45 minutes worth of my time. I now have a mobile tech scheduled to come out next week, and notes in my account to not cancel the appointment.

After being turned down for a screen replacement I used your info to file a claim. Thanks

 

[itsalltall]

Automotive spec parts go way beyond operating temperature range, they include how quickly they change, how many cycles they change, etc. Read more here:
Tesla's Screen Saga Shows Why Automotive Grade Matters

Are you saying that all those cars with yellow bands have somehow exceeded automotive grade specs, which is why the manufacturer refuses to replace them, or are you saying that Tesla chose to design cars that don't break only when operating in a climate controlled showroom, they just "forgot to tell customers"?

Yes, tho it's been clear for a while that one way Tesla saves money is by letting customers do testing.

I do think it's a bit more complex than the 'automotive grading issue.'

Here is a testing firm's note on an issue that looks conspiculously the same as issue under discussion:

Thermal Design Approach for Automotive Display Integration

Basically they did a series of software and real-world tests and found that it would have been difficult to predict the exact heating situations without realistic test environments that recreated temperatures in question :

The main conclusion is that, provided some measures are taken, the estimated temperature specs (as far as they are known), could be met, given the current dissipations and assumed boundary conditions. However, it could be foreseen that under certain circumstances these conditions would be worse, to such an extent that natural convection only cannot prevent overheating of the display at maximum ambient temperatures, and hence a forced convection solution should be explored. However, with the available numerical models of the system, it should be easy to check the consequences of such design changes.

In the opinion of the author, there is no other way to reach these conclusions within a realistic timeframe except by using a CFD-code combined with dedicated tests to confirm uncertain parameters required for the modeling. The biggest hurdle to improving the speed and accuracy of the design process is the lack of accurate data for the boundary conditions for the system, coupled with the widely-spread but incorrect habit of prescribing maximum ambient temperatures for the components.

But they also chide the customer (tesla not named, so take it for what you will) for not taking responsibility to acquire good data on operating requirements of the system they want to sell :

As a customer, and especially if you build high-end or high reliability systems, you are entitled to get the right data, and especially when you will be held responsible for system failures!

To me it's stuff like this that is especially bothersome. I knew there were going to be issues w/m3 bc we never saw more than occasional sightings around the world up until a couple of months before the first deliveries. And even then, almost all sightings were in CA with majority around SF. So basically everybody got a car that worked awesome for 3 months in California springtime. It's not like they didn't have 10-15 years of time to collect temperature data from inside their cars from all over the world. They just didn't do it. If they didn't do it when they had every opportunity, I'm sure there's plenty more of these situations we're going to find out about as model3s age. Wish it wasn't that way, and I gave them lots of leeway in past bc of growing fast. But seeing them launch a car they had 15 years to plan for was eye-opening. I would be scared to own a 3 tbh. Maybe they're including a refresh for 3 along w/SX, sounds like OP was told they may be.

 

[whitex]

Yes, tho it's been clear for a while that one way Tesla saves money is by letting customers do testing.

Well, one of the costs of doing that is that you have to pay to replace parts when they fail. By refusing to do so they are trying to have their cake and eat it too - if it works they pocket the savings, if it doesn't work push the cost onto customers (hence they offered to replace screens at customer cost). Sounds like a scam, similar to a company selling insurance but refusing to pay claims - most customers don't have a claim, so those customers are happy.

 

[mongo]

Yes, tho it's been clear for a while that one way Tesla saves money is by letting customers do testing.

I do think it's a bit more complex than the 'automotive grading issue.'

Here is a testing firm's note on an issue that looks conspiculously the same as issue under discussion:

Thermal Design Approach for Automotive Display Integration

Basically they did a series of software and real-world tests and found that it would have been difficult to predict the exact heating situations without realistic test environments that recreated temperatures in question :



But they also chide the customer (tesla not named, so take it for what you will) for not taking responsibility to acquire good data on operating requirements of the system they want to sell :



To me it's stuff like this that is especially bothersome. I knew there were going to be issues w/m3 bc we never saw more than occasional sightings around the world up until a couple of months before the first deliveries. And even then, almost all sightings were in CA with majority around SF. So basically everybody got a car that worked awesome for 3 months in California springtime. It's not like they didn't have 10-15 years of time to collect temperature data from inside their cars from all over the world. They just didn't do it. If they didn't do it when they had every opportunity, I'm sure there's plenty more of these situations we're going to find out about as model3s age. Wish it wasn't that way, and I gave them lots of leeway in past bc of growing fast. But seeing them launch a car they had 15 years to plan for was eye-opening. I would be scared to own a 3 tbh. Maybe they're including a refresh for 3 along w/SX, sounds like OP was told they may be.

That article is about part self heating, mechanical stability, and solder joint reliability.
None of those are causes of the yellow ring problem in the MCU (they are the causes of the Xbox red ring of death).
The new UV treatment (and snippits of info from SC) indicates the issue is epoxy yellowing due to Oxygen exposure plus temperature. Root cause on that is either material selection, curing, or secondary sealing.

I'd be suprised if Tesla were doing the display bonding in house versus vendor supplied.

 

[xanadufl]

Hi all!

I come bearing news on how to get your yellow screens replaced.

Its surprisingly simple. Tesla participates in a program called NCDS which is binding arbitration for Tesla but NOT for the individual. This is a remediation option prior to true binding arbitration. This means that even if you lose you can still pursue other options later but Tesla has to abide by the ruling. If you follow my points below, you should be able to get your screen replaced using this method.

I went to their website here: NCDS - Automotive Warranty Disputes and filed a claim. All I wrote was a few short sentences describing my screen and explaining that Tesla refuses to fix it. About 2 days later I received an email confirming the claim is eligible and notifying me I would be assigned an arbitrator and a date for a conference call.

I received an email and a letter via the mail a few days later confirming my arbitration date for 3 weeks away. Shortly after, I received an email with Tesla's response. Their response was quite fascinating, in that they 100% admitted the design flaw, but are trying to place it as both "wear and tear" being caused by "environmental conditions" and just a "cosmetic issue". Their response is here: Tesla Response . The interesting bits are mainly on pages 4 and 5.

Shortly after I was provided their response, I replied to my claims administrator and sent her a written response providing dates and times I spoke with individuals, with their names, contrary to Tesla's representative's claim that I never contacted them over this issue to seek a repair. I also provided both photos of the issue to show it impacts while the screen is on, and a copy of an invoice (here: Tesla Repair) showing that they previously claimed it as warranty. This was forwarded to Tesla.

On the day of the call, my husband and I joined with the arbitrator and Tesla's lawyer. The discussion was short, only 30 minutes and had a few interesting notes:

* The discussion partially focused around whether it was a design "characteristic" as opposed to "flaw"
* Tesla claimed it was an environmental issue and provided no proof thereof. The arbitrator dug into this and made it clear he was unimpressed with their claim that had no backing. The lawyer on Tesla's side claimed they had the documents but could not provide them "because of NDAs and such"
* Tesla has _not_ issued a TSB(technical service bulletin) for this issue. That was another sticking point for our arbitrator.
* Tesla's lawyer specifically called out that the flaw impacts every model S/X of that "vintage", but then stated that not every one will exhibit the problem.
* I brought up during the call that I had called the service center that morning and they claimed to have no knowledge on dates for the fix. This was in direct response to Tesla's representative claiming that the fix was actively rolling out to service centers across the country, and had been for 2 weeks.
* interesting note about refresh: Their lawyer admitted that they are now completing final details on their refresh that is around the corner, and this won't be a problem for those vehicles.


Once we ended the call, it took about a week to get the decision in my email: decision . All told, this took MAYBE 45 minutes worth of my time. I now have a mobile tech scheduled to come out next week, and notes in my account to not cancel the appointment.

I am quite surprised that TESLA was not harshly admonished for their patently disingenuous and contradictory representations during the call by the arbitrator/mediator!

 

[mongo]

I am quite surprised that TESLA was not harshly admonished for their patently disingenuous and contradictory representations during the call by the arbitrator/mediator!

? I assume you meant 'to the arbitrator' not 'by the arbitrator'

I don't understand your underlying point. This is akin (different cause) to the ghosting images on early LCD and plasma TVs. They all do it, but the amount depends on what is on the the screen.

Seems like nothing really changed, Tesla said the car was under warranty and would be repaired under warranty when the fix was finalized:

The arbitrator also stated the yellowing was a low impact non-conformance:

 

[Tam]

...The arbitrator also stated the yellowing was a low impact non-conformance

The arbitrator also said that Tesla didn't prove an environmental factor.

I thought that should be easy because Tesla listed what factors cause the yellow bands and it should have documentation from the manufacturer.

If not, it could now get a random pair of brand new displays and vacuum-pack one and leave it in temperature controlled indoor room and just unpack and place another other one inside a greenhouse effect condition.

In a few months, Tesla could produce proof just in time for the next arbitration!

 

[Kevin Bohacz]

Hostility is increased when Tesla treats its consumers as enemies rather than problem solvers.

The root of all the evil in this yellow screen fiasco falls at Tesla's feet for not communicating.

I suspect if Tesla explained the situation openly and honestly (which it has yet to do) then many of those who are angry might be singing a different sweeter tune.

I am still on the fence whether to buy a new Model 3 for my wife or not, and the deciding factor is how Tesla handles his fiasco right now. If they insist on treating customer this way and get away with it, then will do it again and again. I see history already repeating itself. As I understand it, this is not Tesla's first offense.

 

[mechapreneur]

I started noticing the yellow screens on loaner vehicles a couple years ago. But our 2015 did not have this problem so I didn't care. Until our screen died and we got a replacement. Within six months, we had a yellow border on our screen. This seems to be a systemic problem. I sent Tesla a picture and asked that they cover it under warranty and they assured me they would, but that they are working on a solution.

I'm content to wait until the new screens have fixed the yellow border with age, then I'll press the issue.

In the meanwhile, they're claiming they're going to solve this with a software update... that will be a neat trick if they can pull it off.

 

[SucreTease]

The root of all the evil in this yellow screen fiasco falls at Tesla's feet for not communicating.

I suspect if Tesla explained the situation openly and honestly (which it has yet to do) then many of those who are angry might be singing a different sweeter tune.

I am still on the fence whether to buy a new Model 3 for my wife or not, and the deciding factor is how Tesla handles his fiasco right now. If they insist on treating customer this way and get away with it, then will do it again and again. I see history already repeating itself. As I understand it, this is not Tesla's first offense.

I cannot speak for others, but I have not experienced a lack of communication on this issue. I reported the issue on my vehicle, scheduling a service appointment to get it fixed, and I received a message a few days later that stated:

"Currently Tesla is working on an updated part for the yellowing border on the screens. ETA for those parts is late summer 2019.... With your permission we will add your vehicle to the list of vehicles in need of this touchscreen replacement and we will contact you via text at this number when parts are available. Thank you. Note: this would not be mobile capable."​

I suspect that some of the loudest and complaining voices here, and making the biggest demands, are not people actually affected by the problem, and Tesla has no obligation to communicate with anyone who has not reported the problem to Tesla.

I do accept that people affected by the problem some months back, when neither parts nor a repair procedure were available, may have received no effective communication (prompt follow-up on communication is a weak point of Tesla). All I can say is that Tesla responded to me in a timely fashion. I can wait until late summer. If Tesla fails to follow through, then I may pursue other options, but I am content to wait at present, and there is no harm to me in waiting.

 

[St Charles]

I suspect that some of the loudest and complaining voices here, and making the biggest demands, are not people actually affected by the problem, and Tesla has no obligation to communicate with anyone who has not reported the problem to Tesla.

Is this statement out of ignorance or malice? I ask because there are multiple threads with many, many members posting about this exact issue. This thread, the one you posted in, outlines in detail how to pursue legal action to enforce the warranty.

Please DO NOT try to diminish this issue simply because it doesn't bother you. It clearly bothers others.

 

[whitex]

I suspect that some of the loudest and complaining voices here, and making the biggest demands, are not people actually affected by the problem, and Tesla has no obligation to communicate with anyone who has not reported the problem to Tesla.

Well, I am affected, made an appointment with Tesla, waited a month, went there a couple of weeks ago, got told 3 very different stories in one day, from "new screens are coming soon, you're on the list" to "this doesn't impact safety or functionality, so not covered, may have a fix by end of year, you can pay to have it replaced today". So you are somewhat correct, they do communicate, just not any official, consistent Tesla message. They tell customers anything then can think of to pacify the them for now. If the customer is not gullible enough to buy the first answer, try a different answer, until the customer goes away (or service center closes for the day, then you can call and talk to a computer to your heart's content, or make another appointment in a month). The fact that there is no official message means employees make it up as they, hence all the different, often contradicting messages. Or do you think Tesla corporate is changing their answers hourly?

 

[SucreTease]

Well, I am affected, made an appointment with Tesla, waited a month, went there a couple of weeks ago, got told 3 very different stories in one day, from "new screens are coming soon, you're on the list" to "this doesn't impact safety or functionality, so not covered, may have a fix by end of year, you can pay to have it replaced today". So you are somewhat correct, they do communicate, just not any official, consistent Tesla message. They tell customers anything then can think of to pacify the them for now. If the customer is not gullible enough to buy the first answer, try a different answer, until the customer goes away (or service center closes for the day, then you can call and talk to a computer to your heart's content, or make another appointment in a month). The fact that there is no official message means employees make it up as they, hence all the different, often contradicting messages. Or do you think Tesla corporate is changing their answers hourly?

Well, you and I have both been similarly affected. I would then say, then, that the primary difference between us is in our attitudes. I believe that the company is making an honest (though, perhaps not coherent) attempt to resolve the issue, and you believe that the company is lying to its customers and trying to screw them over. I am happy and content with my attitude, and you are not with yours. Each of us gets to choose our perception of the world and how we interact with it. To each, his own, eh?

 

[Skipdd]

Well, you and I have both been similarly affected. I would then say, then, that the primary difference between us is in our attitudes. I believe that the company is making an honest (though, perhaps not coherent) attempt to resolve the issue, and you believe that the company is lying to its customers and trying to screw them over. I am happy and content with my attitude, and you are not with yours. Each of us gets to choose our perception of the world and how we interact with it. To each, his own, eh?

I guess that puts me in the middle (unsurprisingly). When Tesla wrote that the yellow screen was a “cosmetic anomaly,” that stuck in my craw. That’s lawyer talk vs “an honest attempt to resolve.” When Bonnie posted that they fixed her screen with the new process, I accepted they are potentially trying to do the right thing, and await further developments. From what I’ve read of Bonnie, I don’t think she would post something deceptive.