Yellow screen? Force Tesla to Replace it!

[whitex]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I reject your assumption that other suppliers will not queue up to be a Tesla vendor--the prestige of Tesla is impressive.

I never said suppliers don't line up, just they are not willing to lose money on every part sold. We'd be seeing sub $35K Model 3 is that was the case, just ask the suppliers who so badly want to be in a Tesla to provide parts below cost, maybe even pay Tesla to use their batteries, wheels, tires, etc.

 

[whitex]

@whitex and @Gixx1300R have both made claims, represented as fact, that the manufacturer of the display told Tesla that it would not cover warranty claims on the display screen. I have repeatedly asked them for substantiation of the claim that the manufacturer took such a position with Tesla.

Neither one of them has provided anything to substantiate their claims. This suggests that their claims are not, in fact, true. Misrepresenting a false statement as if it was a fact is considered by most people to be a lie. Therefore, these would appear to be lies told to discredit Tesla and bolster their personal, hostile positions against the company.

My claim that Tesla won't cover it under warranty is plain and simple - that is what Tesla service center told me when I took it and asked them to fix it - does not affect functionality, not covered, but I have the option to pay for a replacement out of pocket. Many people here posted their SC responses so it is not a badly trained employee one-of. What more would a customer/owner need? Service centers are official representatives of Tesla, since Elon doesn't answer the support line himself, but I guess people like you will not believe until Elon tweets it.

Also, what repeated asks are you talking about by the way? Everytime I give you an answer, you move onto some new aspect and claim the same thing.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

I never said suppliers don't line up, just they are not willing to lose money on every part sold. We'd be seeing sub $35K Model 3 is that was the case, just ask the suppliers who so badly want to be in a Tesla to provide parts below cost, maybe even pay Tesla to use their batteries, wheels, tires, etc.

Holy Cow WhiteX, let's just drop it.

Your posts are not adding anything of value to the thread.

Thank you.

 

[whitex]

I disagree, I am in Phoenix, AZ, and my screen on my 10/2018 Model S received the yellow border within 2 weeks of purchasing the new "inventory" car. Currently in document only arbitration.

Thanks, there goes another Tesla misinformation.

 

[FlatSix911]

Agree. I hadn't seen the MCU model number before, but a quick google search turns up the spec sheet. Environmental conditions are called out. (Note that the max 80 deg while using the screen is celcius, which translates to 176 deg fahrenheit ...storage upper limit is higher yet.)View attachment 441580

So back to google to find how hot a parked car can get in the summer. Lots of articles, most are in the 110-125 deg (F) range - but the worst case I could find stated is 172F. How hot can the interior of a car get – and how quickly? : HeatKills

So it appears that the screen specs were appropriate for the anticipated environment.

But wait! Reliability. Everyone is throwing around 'automotive grade'. Soooo, oh hey google. What exactly is automotive grade?

Turns out, there is such a thing (not a surprise). It has to do with reliability of critical components. What is the difference between Automotive Grade (GCM) and standard grade (GRM) capacitors? | Murata Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

But it doesn't mean 'every single thing in a vehicle is supposed to be automotive grade'. Here's a helpful chart (left column requires automotive grade, right column does not):

View attachment 441581
So, draw your own conclusions. I'm sure we don't all agree on this, but thought maybe we could all operate from the same set of facts instead of speculating.

You forgot to consider the entire spec sheet which corrects for humidity... at 90% relative humidity, max temp is less than 40'C (104'F)
60% RH, max temp 50'C (122'F) Remember that this is the Absolute Maximum Temperature that should never be exceeded... case closed.

 

[whitex]

You forgot to consider the entire spec sheet which corrects for humidity... at 90% relative humidity, max temp is less than 40'C (104'F)
Remember that this is the Absolute Maximum Temperature that should never be exceeded... case closed.

View attachment 441597

This made me think about something seemingly unrelated. Do you think this may be why Tesla removed pano roof from available options, because it contributed to screen deterioration?

 

[PhilDavid]

Could we please cut the BS. This whole discussion about specs, charts, and graphs is a straw man argument.

I don't think anyone gives a rats behind about specs or what-a-motive-grade the parts are.

We trust Tesla to source parts that will withstand normal use conditions. Sunlight, heat inside a car, oxygen, gravity on earth, are all typical for vehicles being used on earth. The windshield, paint, seats, and yes the MCU display, should not discolor with a hideous yellow tint under normal use. If it does discolor under normal use, it is a defect and it should be fixed under warranty.

If anyone feels this is some "cosmetic" nonsense, try selling a car with a defective MCU that has turned yellow and see how that works out. If the defective displays are not fixed, it causes financial harm to customers with those defective screens, as the defective part would diminish the value of their vehicle. Some potential buyers may even balk at buying a car with a defective display. Who'd want to pay $70K for a used Tesla with a defective screen that has turned yellow?

They need to replace the defective screens or come up with another permanent fix, under warranty.

 

[FlatSix911]

This made me think about something seemingly unrelated.
Do you think this may be why Tesla removed pano roof from available options because it contributed to screen deterioration?

Interesting hypothesis... I think Tesla had enough issues with the Pano Roof alone to remove it from production.

 

[TJtv]

I made no such claim. So proof of something I did not claim is irrelevant. I asked only for proof of someone else's claim. Your question is a straw man.

The CEO of the company willfully admitted that the screen is not automotive grade. How much more proof do you need? This is getting ridiculous.

 

[bonnie]

You forgot to consider the entire spec sheet which corrects for humidity... at 90% relative humidity, max temp is less than 40'C (104'F)
60% RH, max temp 50'C (122'F) Remember that this is the Absolute Maximum Temperature that should never be exceeded... case closed.

View attachment 441597

You're right, I didn't post that (but I obviously linked to it). The numbers you're quoting, however, are from the operating range, not storage temps. I'd say that makes a difference (so did they, since there are diff specs called out for both). Interior temp & relative humidity are within range, in my ownership experience.

I just wanted to post the info - specs, parked car temps, definition of automotive grade. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[FlatSix911]

You're right, I didn't post that (but I obviously linked to it). The numbers you're quoting, however, are from the operating range, not storage temps. I'd say that makes a difference (so did they, since there are diff specs called out for both). Interior temp & relative humidity are within range, in my ownership experience.

I just wanted to post the info - specs, parked car temps, definition of automotive grade. Thanks for the clarification.

Glad to help with the discussion... the max storage and operating temperatures are identical from -20'C to 80'C.

Bottom line, I really think that Tesla should take responsibility and do the right thing by replacing the MCU screens.

For those of us who are long term owners, we remember the days when Tesla had outstanding customer service!

 

[mvotb]

Agree. I hadn't seen the MCU model number before, but a quick google search turns up the spec sheet. Environmental conditions are called out. (Note that the max 80 deg while using the screen is celcius, which translates to 176 deg fahrenheit ...storage upper limit is higher yet.)View attachment 441580

So back to google to find how hot a parked car can get in the summer. Lots of articles, most are in the 110-125 deg (F) range - but the worst case I could find stated is 172F. How hot can the interior of a car get – and how quickly? : HeatKills

So it appears that the screen specs were appropriate for the anticipated environment.

But wait! Reliability. Everyone is throwing around 'automotive grade'. Soooo, oh hey google. What exactly is automotive grade?

Turns out, there is such a thing (not a surprise). It has to do with reliability of critical components. What is the difference between Automotive Grade (GCM) and standard grade (GRM) capacitors? | Murata Manufacturing Co., Ltd.

But it doesn't mean 'every single thing in a vehicle is supposed to be automotive grade'. Here's a helpful chart (left column requires automotive grade, right column does not):

View attachment 441581
So, draw your own conclusions. I'm sure we don't all agree on this, but thought maybe we could all operate from the same set of facts instead of speculating.

Specs for the screens, that are not having an issue, are irrelevant. The issue is the glue that is turning yellow. Now if you can get Tesla to tell what glue was used, some relevant information might be gained. It would also be informative to know who applied the glue to the 2 components, and if it was not the manufacturer of the LCD or the screen, why wasn't it.

 

[utahowner]

I lost my arbitration case. The arbiter said the warranty specifically calls out sunlight damage as not covered, and that I didn’t disprove that the display was damaged by sun light.

I guess this is what Tesla is banking on. That there will be some winners and some losers. I’m either a terrible debater, or drew the unlucky arbiter card. Best of luck to everyone else.

Sorry to hear you lost your case. Remember though the decision of the Arbiter is not legally binding on you unless you accept their decision. I assume you went ahead and already stated you were not satisfied with the decision.

Your next steps are up to you. I'll tell you what I would have done if I hadn't accepted the arbiter's decision. I would have reached back out to my lawyer and get his advice on whether I would go with small claims or straight to the district court.

Small claims are cheaper and would get put in front of a judge but full court means you can request a jury, which would be costly but also I suspect even only a half-decent lawyer could convince 12 people that Tesla's warranty should cover the issue. I think Tesla would try to settle before then though. Otherwise, even if Tesla wins you've just told 12 jurors and all their circle (because jurors talk) exactly the service Tesla provides and what you can expect from their cars after less than a year.

My personality is the type that would rather cost Tesla more money than it would have taken to fix the issue even at my own expense because I'm pretty fortunate to be able to afford one of these cars in the first place. I don't like the idea that there may be a few owners out there that stretched their budget or fell on hard times and trying to sell a screen with a yellow border that can't fight back.

I think I and my lawyer could argue successfully that Tesla's environmental exception is clearly written with the intent of clarifying the warranty does not cover well known environmental issues like rust build up over years and paint fading after being left in the sun for a decade. That no reasonable person should conclude that by virtue of a part being exposed to the sun and oxygen that it is now forever immune from warranty service even if Tesla could prove that the cause was indeed environmental.

 

[utahowner]

My 2 cents: when you go arbitrating, you have 50 % changes to lose because a third party will take a decision between 2 other fighting parties. Is 50 % more that trying to have an agreement with Tesla?
I got the screen because I waited and besides it was covered by warranty, I understand that if you want to sell the car this could drive a buyer back but besides that is it worth the fight? Honest question here

My screen wasn't covered by warranty. Tesla specifically denied me a warranty claim.

The NCDS Warranty Arbitration process is not legally binding on the consumer unless they accept the decision, therefore it is not quite 50/50 because even if you lose like one poster did (bizarrely I might add) you are returned to the status queue. Maybe some Tesla lawyer is pissed at you for a bit but given how quickly Tesla has staff turnover I wouldn't worry about it. Frankly, Tesla can't afford to hold a grudge against a consumer right now.

Further, win or lose the arbitration process MUST be followed in some states (like mine) before you make any sort of lemon law claim. I did not have enough service issues during the first year to trigger my states lemon law. If I had I would have been legally obligated to make the request through arbitration first, the state second, the courts third.

As far as is it worth the fight? I wouldn't call it much of a fight. I did invest a decent amount of time in it myself including a couple meetings with a lawyer first but there is no reason to do any of that. The actual time I was required to commit was like an hour.

 

[whitex]

I lost my arbitration case. The arbiter said the warranty specifically calls out sunlight damage as not covered, and that I didn’t disprove that the display was damaged by sun light.

I guess this is what Tesla is banking on. That there will be some winners and some losers. I’m either a terrible debater, or drew the unlucky arbiter card. Best of luck to everyone else.

Do you have any official paperwork, or a deposition from Tesla stating that they consider yellowing of the screen, after few months of usage outside of a showroom, a normal wear and tear item?

 

[whitex]

The obvious question is, is Tesla designed to operate only in the dark.

Not dark, but rather climate controlled showroom with tight specification for lighting, temperature, vibration and humidity. Evidently Tesla are fragile exotic animals.

 

[mvotb]

Ironically, the denial decision I received started with the same sentence. “Customer proved there is a non-conformity”. But the arbiter went many steps further and concluded that the non-conformity wasn’t covered under the warranty. So it seems non-conformity is defined just as “something isn’t ideal”.

I believe the ruling of "existence of a nonconformity" would probably be the equivalent of, does not meet industry standards. You had a terrible arbitrator. I would refile. New evidence is that Tesla never notified me that this car could not be used in sunlight. Not in the sales information, not in the owners manual, and certainly not industry standard. Tesla previously claimed issues other than sunlight caused the yellowing, and has no evidence of what causes the yellowing, and still doesn't know what the cause is. Use the words from the other rulings here to show that. State that acts of god, air-born chemicals, sunlight, exclusions, are for extraordinary conditions, not for normal use of the product for which it is intended to be used for.

 

[sixela]

In other news: the first Netherlands yellow screen owners reported that the Tilburg SeC (close to the EU assembly factory for S and X) now has the UV fix contraption and that their screens did lose their yellow borders.

 

[Kevin Bohacz]

There was a previous thread where a user was reporting that the yellowing impaired their ability to use some of the controls along the bottom of the screen. That is probably an extreme example but it is not purely cosmetic.

See: Yellow bands of death can disable some touchscreen controls

That's my poor car with a yellow screen that is unreadable, and some buttons that are obscured at times. My service center told me in writing that this is the worst screen they have ever seen and that it will be replaced once a reliable part is available. That was in March 2019.

I just want to add some things:

1. I was an electrical engineer and physicist before I became a writer. In engineering, you must over-spec a part if you want it to survive. For example: If a transistor needs to handle 10 amps of current, you do not use a transistor rated for 10 amps, it will die an early death. Depending on your reliability requirements, you will use a transistor rated at 15 amps (150%) or even 20 amps (200%).

2. Car interiors regularly reach 170 degrees in direct sunlight. The same is true for unventilated attics in your home. A/C service people have died in superheated attics.

3. Tesla has an option called "Cabin Overheat Protection" that will keep the interior of your car below 105 degrees. I have always had this option enabled and look at how bad my screen has gotten since I took delivery in 2018. So heat is likely not the primary cause.

4. Mechanical vibration is just as likely a cause for adhesive failure as is heat, incomplete curing when assembled, improper adhesives, and improper application of the adhesive. The cause is probably a combination of the afore listed.

5. It is my understanding that the display and touch panel is assembled by Tesla or a third party. The problem is the adhesive. So culpability goes to whoever assembled this subassembly and not the manufacturer of the display.

What's wrong in all this is a lack of a formal policy and procedure by Tesla. Look at Apple for a far better, though imperfect, example of how to handle these kinds of problems.

 

[emmz0r]

I see that Jacksonville is near the coast and probably humid. Maybe humidity + minerals / salts made it yellow?

CA glue got yellow after months - any hints how to repair?

https://www.iom3.org/fileproxy/300364

"Problems of discolouration of the adhesive layer in the joint are associated mainly with sole attaching adhesives, as the edge of the bond line and any slight adhesive excess are often very prominent on the shoe. PoIychloroprene adhesives are especially prone to yellowing with time and eventual formation of a dark brown colour. Polyurethanes are less susceptible but most will yellow sufficiently to be noticeable on white or pastel materials, especially if an isocyanate curing agent has been used. Grades which resist discolouration have been developed, typically based on aliphatic isocyanates. Exposure of dry adhesive films to heat or to artificial daylight from a xenon arc lamp is a good pragmatic test."