Yet another reason why the Dual Chargers option is worth having...

[ecarfan]

This might be true were it not for the fact that Tesla is offering the HPWC's to hotels for free, and in some instances Tesla pays for the installation as well. The property owner only pays for the electricity. I don't know for certain, but I imagine that Tesla's offer is contingent upon the hotel not charging Tesla owners for the use of the HPWC, although they might be able to limit it to hotel guests.

I agree. No one is offering free J1772 chargers to destinations. Tesla has an existing product, the HPWC, and they are giving them away to destinations. No other EV manufacturer is doing anything like that. I don't want Tesla to expend resources to develop a J1772 charging station and give that away. If the other EV manufacturers really wanted to make their customers lives easier they would design a J1772 adaptor that works with a HPWC. But other EV manufacturers by and large just want to build compliance vehicles. So until they get serious, it's their problem to deal with.

 

[qwk]

I feel like I'm starting to put too fine a point on this, but I don't think it's about what Tesla is doing. Rather, it's about the perception of an establishment only endorsing one model of car. Like it or not, J1772 and CHAdeMO are here, and the horrible "Frankenplug" is coming, and we're going to be in a multiple standards world for some time. Does it suck? Sure. Imagine if Chevrolets could only re-fuel at Chevrolet gas stations. Ridiculous, but that's where we are in the EV world right now. In a perfect world, all manufacturers will adopt the Model S connector and this discussion ends... but that is a ways off.

To say that someone purchased a car with known limitations and is looking for Tesla's support is not at all what we're talking about here.

I should clarify that I have absolutely no problem with people installing stations other than Tesla's. What I do have a problem with is people whining that Tesla isn't paying for J1772 stations being put in, but rather paying for their own standard.

If we aren't talking about people looking for Tesla's support, then why quote other brand EV owners whining about not being able to use Tesla stations? Makes little sense.

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They are wondering why the establishment they may want to visit only "endorses" one type of EV. No one is kicking sand on Tesla's parade. They probably don't even realize how/why the HPWCs were installed, and only wonder why a more universal charger wasn't.

This has been covered many times in this thread. These businesses are installing Tesla stations, because they are FREE, vs. $2k+ for a comparable J1772 station.

 

[mknox]

I agree. No one is offering free J1772 chargers to destinations. Tesla has an existing product, the HPWC, and they are giving them away to destinations. No other EV manufacturer is doing anything like that. I don't want Tesla to expend resources to develop a J1772 charging station and give that away. If the other EV manufacturers really wanted to make their customers lives easier they would design a J1772 adaptor that works with a HPWC. But other EV manufacturers by and large just want to build compliance vehicles. So until they get serious, it's their problem to deal with.

First of all, Sun Country Highway donated a ton of J1772 chargers here in Canada.

But that aside, I don't think anyone is asking Tesla to give away J1772 stations. That would be nuts. Sell a J1772 station -- okay maybe. Personally, I'd be thrilled to come across an HPWC at some destination I'm headed to. It's about the perception of a hotel, ski resort, restaurant or whatever only providing that very specialized connector. For Tesla owners like us to say "too bad, so sad" only exacerbates the growing sentiment that we're all a bunch of entitled elitists. I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S TRUE, but I am definitely feeling it from time to time.

 

[qwk]

I've heard of hotels turning down destination chargers because of this - Tesla could gain more traction and install more chargers if they offered an HPWC with J1772 connector, and avoid the "elitist" image at the same time.

I don't know where you get the "elitist" scenario from. This is simply a case of getting what you pay for, or don't pay for. The choice in EV's right now is either a city car, or Tesla. It's as simple as that.

 

[mknox]

If we aren't talking about people looking for Tesla's support, then why quote other brand EV owners whining about not being able to use Tesla stations? Makes little sense.

I think it's because they are on the property of some hotel, ski resort or whatever and these folks aren't making the connection to Tesla themselves. They are wondering why the property owner chose to do this.

 

[qwk]

First of all, Sun Country Highway donated a ton of J1772 chargers here in Canada.

You are comparing Apples with Cabbage. Sun Country doesn't manufacture vehicles.

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I think it's because they are on the property of some hotel, ski resort or whatever and these folks aren't making the connection to Tesla themselves. They are wondering why the property owner chose to do this.

In that case, jumping to conclusions is their problem.

 

[JohnQ]

Customers have choices. In many cases (though certainly not all), there are J1772 chargers within a mile of the HPWC. Sometimes in a competing hotel parking lot, sometimes not. So if I'm going to Ocean City, Md or Binghamton, NY or Bedford, NH I can elect to stay at a hotel that is close to a charger that has compatibility.

I truly believe this is much ado about nothing. Tesla has decided to compete with an existing standard and provided its customers with an adapter to access the network that uses that standard. Today there are thousands of J1772 chargers for every public HPWC making it a relatively minor issue. And if it becomes a large issue, someone will build and sell a reverse adapter to access the Tesla standard.

 

[mknox]

You are comparing Apples with Cabbage. Sun Country doesn't manufacture vehicles.

Not sure why that matters. The point is that a ton of J1772 stations were donated to sites for destination and travel charging.

In that case, jumping to conclusions is their problem.

But it is a reasonable conclusion. If Hotel A has an HPWC (or a J1772 or a CHAdeMO) on their property for their patrons, they must have had some say in it.

 

[wycolo]

> LOTs of non-Tesla EV owners take overnight trips in their cars, or day trips beyond their car's range and need to charge and get back. [mknox]

But these destinations are so close to the city that Tesla would not be making the effort to install HPWCs there anyway. TM's interest would begin around the 150 mile radius which other EVs can't reach directly. Ski/camping areas and major Parks. Nissan could hang an Aeroviron charger on the same wall if they want to, right next to the HPWC.

The decent thing for Nissan to do would be to start a 'me too' campaign that installs a 6kw Aero Charger next to every HPWC that Tesla does. They could do this out of pocket change. None of that huge outlay with subsidies that the US Chademo roll out required.
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[mknox]

And if it becomes a large issue, someone will build and sell a reverse adapter to access the Tesla standard.

If someone DID make an HPWC to J1772 adapter, and one of us showed up at a hotel and found a Leaf (or, God forbid a Volt) plugged in to it, how would we feel about that?

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The decent thing for Nissan to do would be to start a 'me too' campaign that installs a 6kw Aero Charger next to every HPWC that Tesla does. --

Good idea, except that in a lot of cases, there isn't electrical capacity in the building to do this. In fact I even know of one public Tesla HPWC site where they've had to dial the amps down because of building wiring issues.

 

[ToddRLockwood]

If Tesla's Destination Charging network becomes robust enough, it might give other car manufacturers a reason to adopt Tesla's charging standards. I believe we will see this begin to happen when other car companies introduce 200+mile PEVs like the Model III. The level 2 standard makes sense for the limited range EV's now using them, but down the road those chargers will be wholly inadequate.

 

[JohnQ]

If someone DID make an HPWC to J1772 adapter, and one of us showed up at a hotel and found a Leaf (or, God forbid a Volt) plugged in to it, how would we feel about that?

It's a private charging station owned by the hotel/restaurant. They can choose to allow anyone to charge under the terms of Tesla's agreement in providing the equipment. It's no different than if I find a Leaf charging at any other station.

John

 

[Jaff]

+1...I take my Roadster on many overnight trips...

Well, Tesla Roadsters can. And they could use the 100A J1772, but cannot use the Model S HPWC.

 

[Jaff]

With all due respect, your statement does not incorporate any planning for the future...are we really to assume that other EV manufactures will never have an offering with a bigger battery?...I wouldn't want to take that bet...if I owned a Hotel, the only way I would put in an HWPC would be if I was also putting in a high amp Level II charge station that would accommodate all EV's....why should I limit my sales to accommodating only "some" EVers?...that is not good business...

That's my point, the 80A J1772 has NO advantage. It cannot charge any faster than an HPWC, and the HUGE disadvantage is that it is tied to a L3 standard that is limited to about half of what Tesla offers.

 

[ecarfan]

With all due respect, your statement does not incorporate any planning for the future...are we really to assume that other EV manufactures will never have an offering with a bigger battery?

Of course they will...eventually. But it appears they are at least a year away if not two or three years from offering a 200+ mile range EV. So for now an HPWC is a good way to attract Tesla owners to remote destinations.

 

[qwk]

With all due respect, your statement does not incorporate any planning for the future...are we really to assume that other EV manufactures will never have an offering with a bigger battery?...I wouldn't want to take that bet...if I owned a Hotel, the only way I would put in an HWPC would be if I was also putting in a high amp Level II charge station that would accommodate all EV's....why should I limit my sales to accommodating only "some" EVers?...that is not good business...

I used to think this way too, UNTIL I used the supercharger network for a 3k mile trip. After that eye opener, there is no way that ANY manufacturer will be able to sell many EV's without access to the superchargers. There is that much difference.

When, not if, Tesla's plug becomes the standard, everything else is going to need adapters. It's better just to skip this step.

 

[Six]

I used to think this way too, UNTIL I used the supercharger network for a 3k mile trip. After that eye opener, there is no way that ANY manufacturer will be able to sell many EV's without access to the superchargers. There is that much difference.

When, not if, Tesla's plug becomes the standard, everything else is going to need adapters. It's better just to skip this step.

After my recent 5500 mile road trip, I agree with this idea. Tesla opened up its patents, their chargers, network, plug and standard are considerably better then the competition. If other car companies really cared they could use the better standard, they don't and they won't. IMHO that is not my problem or Tesla's problem. Tesla already offered the solution by opening up their patents.

 

[tezco]

If someone DID make an HPWC to J1772 adapter, and one of us showed up at a hotel and found a Leaf (or, God forbid a Volt) plugged in to it, how would we feel about that?

Since I probably paid $10,000 as part of my Tesla's purchase price towards the Tesla charging system, I'd feel angry. Tesla may have opened up their patents, but they haven't said we're giving away electricity to all comers. You've got to set your boundaries -- Tesla still needs to make a profit to stay in the game.

 

[TexasEV]

I think all the arguments pro and con regarding hotels partnering with Tesla to install HPWC have already been made, several times over, so no point repeating ourselves.
It's interesting that much of the opposition seems to be from Canadians, certainly out of proportion to their relative numbers as Tesla owners or forum participants. I wonder if this is a cultural difference, or is it somehow related to the fact that most of the Sun Country high amp level 2's at hotels are in Canada?

 

[SFOTurtle]

With all due respect, your statement does not incorporate any planning for the future...are we really to assume that other EV manufactures will never have an offering with a bigger battery?...I wouldn't want to take that bet...if I owned a Hotel, the only way I would put in an HWPC would be if I was also putting in a high amp Level II charge station that would accommodate all EV's....why should I limit my sales to accommodating only "some" EVers?...that is not good business...

And it would be well within your rights (I assume even in Canada) to put in whatever charging stations you want on your hotel property, so great if you want to put in both. But right now, I'm guessing that most hotels might only want or need to put in one station, and if I were the hotel owner, and Tesla was willing to give me a deal on a HPWC, that's the one I would choose. Personally, if I have a choice all things being equal, between a hotel that has a HPWC and one with a Level II charger, I would opt for the hotel with the HPWC. And I assume that most Tesla owners would do the same, and hotel owners who are in areas where road tripping is feasible for Teslas but not for Leafs would want to extend this benefit to attract more Tesla owners. If the market later shifts to some other cars with another plug, or another hotel owner adopts for Level II and miraculously starts winning more customers, than hotel owners can always add another station with the plug of choice. That ain't where we are now or anytime in the foreseeable future. And with all due respect to those relatively small number of Roadster owners who actually do road trip, I would not be pleased with Tesla taking its valuable resources and subsidizing Level II chargers for other cars to use instead of rolling out more HPWCs.

Reading this thread and all of the knocks on Tesla and hotels for adding more HPWCs and not adding Level II chargers reminds me of the saying, "no good deed goes unpunished."