Yet another reason why the Dual Chargers option is worth having...

[franknesss]

The first part of your statement is just not true. I understand there was confusion and Tesla thought pairing HPWC with dual chargers would eliminate that confusion, but the fact remains that Tesla emphasized the dual chargers were to charge with HPWC at home. Even before the short-lived bundling of HPWC and dual chargers, people who didn't need 80A charging at home were told there is no reason to order the car with dual chargers if you're not getting HPWC. I'm one of them.

I'm not blaming anyone, this was before Tesla thought of a destination charging program, and when in most of the U.S. the J1772s were all 30A. It's just that dual chargers have turned out to be more useful than they were thought to be when they were intended to be paired with a HPWC installed at home. Given these facts, and the upgrade price calculates to 12 hours of service center labor above the price of the factory installed option, I think it would be reasonable for Tesla to provide a more reasonable upgrade price if the installation doesn't actually take 12 hours of work.

My daily commute is about 85miles. I was told that due to my driving habits and accessibility to Level 2 chargers in my apartment complex, there was no need for the dual chargers. However, since we were already considering installing a 30A unit at our home (second location) I thought it would be nice to add the HPWC to the house as well. So I got lucky with adding on the dual chargers.

Long story short, I was told I didn't need the dual chargers by the sales reps, but I think they did not foresee the possibility of Tesla utilising their HPWC unit as a formal way to extend the Tesla charging network. What I mean by "formal" is having the location on the Teslamotors.com page. I would assume most people would rather not have their private residences listed.

 

[JohnQ]

I find this community to be far more knowledgeable than your average Tesla rep in a store. When choosing charger configuration I educated myself on high-speed L2 availability in the areas where I was most likely to drive and landed on the single charger option. I would have listened to, and taken into account, the opinion of the Telsa rep but it's ultimately my decision. If I traveled to Canada often then I would have added the second charger in a heartbeat. I have encountered one instance where a dual charger would be helpful: when all the superchargers in Bethesda were taken and I plugged into a 14-50 rather than doubling up the rate from the HPWC right next to it. I'll have another when I travel through SW Ontario in a few weeks. I'll be irritated by not having dual chargers but not $1,500 worth of irritation.

Destination chargers don't change my opinion of this. I can get a full charge from an HPWC in less than 8 hours or so; in very rare cases my overnight stay at the hotel might be less than that. Others will have different opinions, needs and patience.

 

[Larry Chanin]

HPWCs are particularly useful at luxury hotels and resorts when they are managed as part of the valet parking operations. Then having faster AC charging is very helpful in permitting the topping off of multiple Model Ss. The valets can swap Model Ss in and out as needed. The faster charging is sort of like mechanical advantage whereby you can charge more cars than there are charging terminals.

Larry

 

[GSP]

I would sum up the dual charger decision as:

Reasons NOT to get dual chargers:
1) SuperCharging (on board charger is not used)
2) DC Fast Charging with the "coming soon" $1000 CHAdeMO adaptor (on board charger is not used). The likely expansion of both SuperChargers and CHAdeMO DC charging stations will result in less need for dual on-board chargers.
3) Overnight charging (30 mph from single 40A charger is plenty fast enough)
4) The second charger will lighten your wallet by $1500

Reasons TO get dual chargers:
1) Day trip destinations with 80 Amp charging stations
2) Quick top off of your battery at home, from a routine charge level of 60-90% to 100% or whatever is needed for an unplanned longer trip.
3) TOU rate plans with super off peak window of less than 4-5 hours. If you drive over 100 miles per day, you may need dual chargers to finish charging in the lowest cost time period.
4) Makes charging stops on routes without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp stations, feasible. Stops are only 2-4 hours instead of 4-8 hours!
5) Keep in mind likely expansion of 80 Amp charging availability in your area, not just what is available now. Also consider the possibility of future travel to areas without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp charging.
6) Save $2100 compared to retrofitting a second charger.

GSP

PS. I should add that Europeans have so many 22 kW 3-phase Type-2 EVSE outlets that buying dual chargers is an absolute no-brainer for them, unless they don't drive all that much.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I would sum up the dual charger descison as:

Reasons NOT to get dual chargers:
1) SuperCharging (on board charger is not used)
2) Overnight charging (30 mph from single 40A charger is plenty fast enough)
3) The second charger will lighten your wallet by $1500

Reasons TO get dual chargers:
1) Day trip destinations with 80 Amp charging stations
2) Quick top off of your battery at home, from a routine charge level of 60-90% to 100% or whatever is needed for an unplanned longer trip.
3) Makes charging stops on routes without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp stations, feasible. Stops are only 2-4 hours instead of 4-8 hours!
4) Keep in mind likely expansion of 80 Amp charging availability in your area, not just what is available now. Also consider the possibility of future travel to areas without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp charging.
5) Save $2100 compared to retrofitting a second charger.

GSP

PS. I should add that Europeans have so many 22 kW 3-phase Type-2 EVSE outlets that buying dual chargers is an absolute no-brainer for them, unless they don't drive all that much.

Nice summary.

Larry

 

[breser]

4) Keep in mind likely expansion of 80 Amp charging availability in your area, not just what is available now. Also consider the possibility of future travel to areas without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp charging.

This was ultimately the reason I ordered the dual chargers. I plan to keep the car for more than a couple years (kept my previous car for 15 years). I'd like to get 10 years out of this car (that may be pushing it with new technology but we'll see). It seems inevitable that 80 Amp charging will become more common.

 

[iffatall]

...For a time Tesla actually discouraged ordering with dual chargers when not ordered with HPWC and bundled them together for a while to emphasize dual chargers were intended for people who install HPWC at home. As it turns out dual chargers are becoming useful for many of us who have no need for HPWC at home, 40A charging with NEMA 14-50 is fine for overnight charging at home, but we would use them at destinations...

When I spoke with the Tesla Sales Rep last October, to discuss options that I should add to my car, I had very little knowledge of the charging systems, and options. I told the rep I was not sure if I should get the dual chargers, because I wasn't sure if I would use it. She asked me a few questions about my daily commute length and schedule, and came to the conclusion that I do not really needed it. In very clear terms, she explained to me that the use of having dual chargers was to do quick charging at home. If not for that, the second charger will remain unused. That made my decision very easy - no dual chargers necessary.

Had I had then, the same knowledge about charging that I have today, I would have added the dual charger option without any hesitation. And this is not even considering hotels installing "Tesla Connectors".

 

[andrewket]

I would sum up the dual charger descison as:

Reasons NOT to get dual chargers:
1) SuperCharging (on board charger is not used)
2) Overnight charging (30 mph from single 40A charger is plenty fast enough)
3) The second charger will lighten your wallet by $1500

Reasons TO get dual chargers:
1) Day trip destinations with 80 Amp charging stations
2) Quick top off of your battery at home, from a routine charge level of 60-90% to 100% or whatever is needed for an unplanned longer trip.
3) Makes charging stops on routes without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp stations, feasible. Stops are only 2-4 hours instead of 4-8 hours!
4) Keep in mind likely expansion of 80 Amp charging availability in your area, not just what is available now. Also consider the possibility of future travel to areas without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp charging.
5) Save $2100 compared to retrofitting a second charger.

GSP

PS. I should add that Europeans have so many 22 kW 3-phase Type-2 EVSE outlets that buying dual chargers is an absolute no-brainer for them, unless they don't drive all that much.

I would add under pro:

TOU rate plans with super off peak window of less than 4-5 hours. This was one of my reasons.

 

[GSP]

I would add under pro:

TOU rate plans with super off peak window of less than 4-5 hours. This was one of my reasons.

Good point. I added it to my original post, just to make the summary more complete.

GSP

 

[mknox]

Perhaps you didn't mean to imply it, but your initial response could easily be interpreted that you were suggesting that Tesla promote other chargers rather than their own.

No, I meant the hotel / ski resort / restaurant should consider a more open 100 amp J1772 over a 100 amp HPWC, not that Tesla should provide it.

 

[karmamule]

When I described my driving patterns to my owner advisor he agreed dual chargers didn't sound necessary. Superchargers have my regular longer drives covered, and on the rare cases when I may have to rely on destination charging it'll be just that, charging at my *destination*. Almost all the time my destination is where I'll be spending the night, or I'll perhaps want to walk somewhere nearby, but in either case I won't care that my charging is taking 6 or 8 hours instead of a couple.

Spending 1500 to cover those couple of times I might be inconvenienced by not having it just does not seem worth the price. And, with the supercharger network continuing to fill in the likelihood I'll regret this grows less and less. I can understand that people who frequently make long trips, and/or don't have good SC coverage where they drive would get their money's worth, but it didn't seem worth it for the vast majority of my driving needs.

 

[TexasEV]

When I described my driving patterns to my owner advisor he agreed dual chargers didn't sound necessary. Superchargers have my regular longer drives covered, and on the rare cases when I may have to rely on destination charging it'll be just that, charging at my *destination*. Almost all the time my destination is where I'll be spending the night, or I'll perhaps want to walk somewhere nearby, but in either case I won't care that my charging is taking 6 or 8 hours instead of a couple.

Spending 1500 to cover those couple of times I might be inconvenienced by not having it just does not seem worth the price. And, with the supercharger network continuing to fill in the likelihood I'll regret this grows less and less. I can understand that people who frequently make long trips, and/or don't have good SC coverage where they drive would get their money's worth, but it didn't seem worth it for the vast majority of my driving needs.

It sounds like you made an informed decision after knowing that dual chargers can be used when traveling. Now the web page on public charging addresses this:
"If you plan to take road trips, we recommend outfitting your Model S with Dual Chargers."
That wasn't the case a year ago, as others have confirmed after reading my post, when dual chargers were described as being for use with HPWC at home.

As I said before, I'm not blaming anyone, circumstances change and everyone was learning as they went along. I just think those of us who didn't get dual chargers because we weren't getting HPWC 80A charging at home should be able to have the dual chargers installed for a surcharge that is something less than the 12 hours of service center labor ($2100 over factory installed price) Tesla is charging.

 

[breser]

As I said before, I'm not blaming anyone, circumstances change and everyone was learning as they went along. I just think those of us who didn't get dual chargers because we weren't getting HPWC 80A charging at home should be able to have the dual chargers installed for a surcharge that is something less than the 12 hours of service center labor ($2100 over factory installed price) Tesla is charging.

I'm honestly having a hard time believing that Tesla is charging a premium for this upgrade if there wasn't a reason for it. It's in their interest to offer this sort of upgrade for as low as they can, given that charging times are one of the significant down sides of EVs.

The comparison in this thread to replacing a charger (2 hours) to adding a 2nd charger may not be accurate. I'd imagine they may need to add wiring for the 2nd charger if it isn't installed in the factory. Swapping out a charger is just a matter of removing one and plugging in a new one so it's likely to be easier. If they have to do significant tear downs to get the wiring in place the 12 hours might not be that ridiculous.

So I'd be curious for someone who has actually done the upgrade to describe how long Tesla had their car. If it took more than one day I'd bet on it being much more difficult than the charger swap and thus the added cost is not unusual.

 

[Canuck]

It sounds like you made an informed decision after knowing that dual chargers can be used when traveling. Now the web page on public charging addresses this:
"If you plan to take road trips, we recommend outfitting your Model S with Dual Chargers."
That wasn't the case a year ago, as others have confirmed after reading my post, when dual chargers were described as being for use with HPWC at home.

As I said before, I'm not blaming anyone, circumstances change and everyone was learning as they went along. I just think those of us who didn't get dual chargers because we weren't getting HPWC 80A charging at home should be able to have the dual chargers installed for a surcharge that is something less than the 12 hours of service center labor ($2100 over factory installed price) Tesla is charging.

Have you thought about writing a letter to one of the higher ups at Tesla with details of your story and what you were originally told etc. to see if you can get a discount? You might be pleasantly surprised but if not there's not much to lose except the time it took write it.

 

[iffatall]

.... It's in their interest to offer this sort of upgrade for as low as they can, given that charging times are one of the significant down sides of EVs....

Agree with what you said, but just thinking out loud:

Demand for the cars is so high the factory is having a hard time to keep supply up. Elon mentioned service centers do not make profit (although, I am not sure if this is really true). Service Centers are swamped and backlogged.
Given the above three, Tesla has no reason to encourage this retrofit.

 

[JohnQ]

Agree with what you said, but just thinking out loud:

Demand for the cars is so high the factory is having a hard time to keep supply up. Elon mentioned service centers do not make profit (although, I am not sure if this is really true). Service Centers are swamped and backlogged.
Given the above three, Tesla has no reason to encourage this retrofit.

I'd just qualify this with some service centers are swamped. I've got three within 30 miles of me and they seem to be looking for things to do.

 

[seanahan]

The main reason I decided on dual chargers when I ordered three months ago was "future proofing" the car. It is very unclear what the charging infrastructure will be like in this country in the next 3-5 years, and even more unclear looking at 10 yeras. What if my commuting habits change? What if my power plan changes? What if I want to sell to by a newer model in 3 years? There are so many unanswered questions in my mind that I decided to get the dual chargers now, rather than may extra later.

 

[karmamule]

seanahan, the reasons those factors didn't influence me: One thing that IS clear about the future of the charging infrastructure is that the supercharger network is going to expand, not contract. Two new superchargers opening close to me in the next few months. I'm not worried about the possibilities of very long commutes because, forget about my car, *I* wouldn't tolerate it! And, as far as resale value in 3 years, I decided to go with financing with Tesla so I'd have a set buy-out price if I want to "trade up" in 3 years. Right now I'm anticipating I'll love my S85, but I know myself and as they add new features like ACC, maybe LTE, maybe some other autonomous driving features, better battery performance etc., I highly suspect I'll want to get the latest and greatest.

But, if those factors are worrying you it definitely sounds like you made the best decision for you. We all know ourselves best, and if not having something is going to nag at you then why cheap out over a couple thousand on such a huge purchase? It would be a shame to go through all this and then still have that little voice saying "Damn I shoulda got that ...........". In my case I dithered over air suspension and that line of thinking broke the tie, so to speak, and made me modify my purchase to get it.

 

[ahimberg]

I would sum up the dual charger decision as:

Reasons NOT to get dual chargers:
1) SuperCharging (on board charger is not used)
2) Overnight charging (30 mph from single 40A charger is plenty fast enough)
3) The second charger will lighten your wallet by $1500

Reasons TO get dual chargers:
1) Day trip destinations with 80 Amp charging stations
2) Quick top off of your battery at home, from a routine charge level of 60-90% to 100% or whatever is needed for an unplanned longer trip.
3) TOU rate plans with super off peak window of less than 4-5 hours. If you drive over 100 miles per day, you may need dual chargers to finish charging in the lowest cost time period.
4) Makes charging stops on routes without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp stations, feasible. Stops are only 2-4 hours instead of 4-8 hours!
5) Keep in mind likely expansion of 80 Amp charging availability in your area, not just what is available now. Also consider the possibility of future travel to areas without Superchargers, but with 80 Amp charging.
6) Save $2100 compared to retrofitting a second charger.

GSP

PS. I should add that Europeans have so many 22 kW 3-phase Type-2 EVSE outlets that buying dual chargers is an absolute no-brainer for them, unless they don't drive all that much.

One thing I would add under Not is if you believe that chademo or sae j1772 combo/dc charging will become prevalent and supported by Tesla and that becomes the answer for day charging. I'm still hoping for the combo adapter, which should be a lot less expensive than the chademo, and within a couple years take over chademo.

 

[seanahan]

One thing that IS clear about the future of the charging infrastructure is that the supercharger network is going to expand, not contract.

I guess three months ago that wasn't as clear to me as it is right now. I agree, I think it will continue to expand. However, what's not clear to me is whether they will extend superchargers into cities throughout the country, or continue to maintain them along major highways. For example, in Texas, I can easily get from Dallas to Austin with one supercharger stop. But the roundtrip from the supercharger to Austin and then back again on the way home would be a little tight, especially if I drove a lot around Austin. So, if I'm in Austin for a few days, (or Houston or San Antonio), I would likely need to find intermediate charging to get me back to the supercharger on the way back. Or even if I can "make" it, I'd prefer to not have to do a full charge at the supercharger. If there is available charging in the cities (definitely true in Austin), then I would rather dual charge than single. Tesla advertising their HPWC network and putting them in hotels and public places makes all of this even easier.

Another thought was that if other companies start putting in their own adapters in various places, Tesla may avoid putting in a supercharger, since that area already has electric charging that Tesla's can use.

Add that to resale value, piece of mind, and high cost of retrofit, and it seemed like an easy decision for me. However, I agree with the assessment that most people don't really need dual charges. I'm a worrier, so it was easier for me to get that option now rather than worry about it for years.