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Yoke Steering

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I like this grip position: just grabbing anything for control, pushing sideways really. Yes, it's a drift video and they are thrashing the car but it shows the desperate move required with the yoke.

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A good drifter has good hand control and wouldn't get caught doing this *sugar* where he wouldn't know where his wheel is pointed at, let alone gripping it like that.

 
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A good drifter has good hand control and wouldn't get caught doing this *sugar* where he wouldn't know where his wheel is pointed at, let alone gripping it like that.

I'm not sure which side of the discussion you're taking? It's nice that the driver in your video has a round wheel and is demonstrating his technique at 2mph, but how does that relate to the yoke driver at 80+mph? Are you saying the yoke is fine but the technique was bad, or that the yoke isn't fine? For the record, when I said I "like" this grip position I'm of course being sarcastic - I'm not a fan of the yoke for fast maneuvers.

Are you suggesting that with proper spacial awareness & technique a drifter could always landmark the correct edges of the yoke and never slip off the yoke while turning? I believe the driver Kai Goddard is supposed to be a good drifter and he was having trouble with the yoke, perhaps with more practice he'd get the hang of it?
 
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The yoke is fine, the technique is bad if you start gripping air as a pro drifter.

The video at 2mph would be the same at 60 or 160 mph: the technique ensures the driver always knows where his wheels are pointing at, and can steer lock to lock in 3 turns. And if you look in detail, at no moment in time does the driver touch the top of the round steering wheel, which shows this steering technique is compatible with the Tesla Yoke.

I am suggesting that with a correct steering technique, you don't need proper spacial awareness to know where your yoke is pointed at. Any drifter that is used to having the wheel slip through his hands, is an amateur.
 
The yoke is fine, the technique is bad if you start gripping air as a pro drifter.

The video at 2mph would be the same at 60 or 160 mph: the technique ensures the driver always knows where his wheels are pointing at, and can steer lock to lock in 3 turns. And if you look in detail, at no moment in time does the driver touch the top of the round steering wheel, which shows this steering technique is compatible with the Tesla Yoke.

I am suggesting that with a correct steering technique, you don't need proper spacial awareness to know where your yoke is pointed at. Any drifter that is used to having the wheel slip through his hands, is an amateur.
Yes, at 2mph he can do it. Maybe he can do it exactly the same at 160mph but he didn't demonstrate that so there's no proof there. The consequences of poorly landmarking on a round wheel are zero, you still get wheel. On the yoke if you miss you lose.

As far as talking about pro drifters and advanced driver training, this is a consumer product and that means novices, teens, adults and seniors. Ok, not for drifting, but for @ManyTesowner who is a regular person, driving regularly, and is having difficulty, it goes to show the yoke isn't very user-friendly.
 
At 160mph the technique is just the same as at 2mph. This is a technique BMW employs in their driver training, from beginner courses to their advanced track days and security trainings. But obviously, a beginner course you won't get trained a double lane change or Y-turn. But in the first 30 minutes of theory training, correct hand positioning and steering is taught, just after correct seating and steering position.

And as you see at 2mph, it's not complicated. Having a yoke even forces you using a proper steering technique.

 
Let me guess: you want people to know where their wheels are pointed?

I think you were arguing against two different things and then combined them. I didn’t see anyone arguing that the wheel slides through your grip is a way to draft. I don’t care about drifting.

What I did describe is that for common slow intersection turns, or coming out of a parking space turn, switching between yoke and wheel cars made me realize that with a wheel I typically execute that turn in a way that gives me precise and quick and good leverage ability to make steering corrections as the wheel re centers itself as it slides through my grip and I modulate the speed of the re-centering by applying, or releasing the grip.

For me, this works and further keeps my arm in one position from which I can have maximum leverage to apply a steering correction in either direction. If I did the granny shuffle, or worse the hand over hand getting arms cross wise, at some points in the turn my arms would be in non-optimal positions to have leverage and purchase on the wheel/yoke to make fast steering corrections as needed. Keeping my arm relatively still, while sensing the speed and force of the wheel sliding through it gives me perfect information about wheel/tire position and the ability to execute steering corrections from a position of maximum leverage and force and follow-through.




should know at any time which way his wheels are pointed, through his hands on the steering wheel.

Letting the wheel slide through your hands makes that impossible.
 
Let me guess: you want people to know where their wheels are pointed?
It's the basics of proper car driving. Can't drive properly if you don't know which way your wheels are pointed at.

The technique with 2 hands 9-to-3 is a proper technique to know at every moment in time in which direction your wheels are turned, even without looking at the steering wheel. That's good, because looking at the steering wheel is less important than looking outside to see the road.

I'm pretty sure your technique of having your wheel slide in your hands has been working well for ages, up until now when you are presented with a yoke. Likewise, people who drove with one one hand on top of the steering wheel will be annoyed too. People who prefer a knob on their wheel will be annoyed too. But in all those 3 cases, the steering technique was sub-par before and with a yoke becomes glaringly obvious.

Your steering technique would be shot down in any proper driver training school. It's the first remark you'd get at BMW when spinning out at their one lane change exercise, exactly because in an emergency situation you lose oversight in what way your wheels are actually pointed at, because you didn't have a plan to properly take the wheel while turning.
 
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Currently own a model 3, but have a S on order. The car looks great, apart from the yoke.
Living in the UK, we have lots of small roundabouts. I tried to imagine using the yoke the other day whilst going round one. The yoke itself wouldn’t be a huge issue, but the lack of indicator stalks would be.
Halfway round, when I’d like to be indicating left to exit the roundabout, the yoke would be upside down. The left indicator would be pointing right, and my right hand would be on it….
Ridiculously distracting and utterly pointless.
I drive in the US a lot, and I get how this wouldn’t be as much of a problem there, with way fewer roundabouts…

As much as I’d love the car, I can’t see how I won’t cancel it before it comes, unless stalks are an option. In fact I can’t actually see how the yoke with no stalks would be legal here, but no indication it’s not, yet.
 
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when spinning out at their one lane change exercise, exactly because in an emergency situation you lose oversight in what way your wheels are actually pointed at, because you didn't have a plan to properly take the wheel while turning.

Which is why I specifically said it was for low speed 90 degree turns (turning in an intersection from a stop, or coming out of a parking space) and as I explained allows for immediate and well levered steering adjustments if an emergency presented itself in the course of the low speed turn.

I get that some (but not all, see below) driver training courses would prefer to generalize their hand position advice to cover the range of situations and not contemplate different hand positions for certain maneuvers, such as low speed turns.

But the wheel sliding through the grip during a low speed turn is superior for the reasons I explained and you ignored as clearly evidenced by the example above. I also get some people like to rely on authority to do their thinking for them and that is fine too.

For those who want authority to allow the wheel to unwind and use the friction of their grip, here is one
 
For those who want authority to allow the wheel to unwind and use the friction of their grip, here is one
This is hilariously bad advice.

Also, notice how he starts out not even 9-to-3. Then he pulls (bad) with one hand (bad), and then pushes (ok...) with one hand (bad) and crosses with his arm his steering wheel, while his other hand is not even doing anything. And he keeps doing it in all the other turns. The guy even has moments where he releases the steering wheel completely while moving forward to readjust.

And obviously, shocker, this is completely not applicable on a yoke.
 
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Currently own a model 3, but have a S on order. The car looks great, apart from the yoke.
Living in the UK, we have lots of small roundabouts. I tried to imagine using the yoke the other day whilst going round one. The yoke itself wouldn’t be a huge issue, but the lack of indicator stalks would be.
Halfway round, when I’d like to be indicating left to exit the roundabout, the yoke would be upside down. The left indicator would be pointing right, and my right hand would be on it….
Ridiculously distracting and utterly pointless.
I drive in the US a lot, and I get how this wouldn’t be as much of a problem there, with way fewer roundabouts…

As much as I’d love the car, I can’t see how I won’t cancel it before it comes, unless stalks are an option. In fact I can’t actually see how the yoke with no stalks would be legal here, but no indication it’s not, yet.
I've considered the same in mainland Europe, and I'm not too worried.

For once, your steering wheel won't be upside down on normal roundabouts. It will point 90º to the inside, but the advantage you have in the UK means the indicator buttons will be up, so easier to reach with your hand.

On entering the roundabout, there isn't a problem either.

The reason I'm not that worried about the indicators is because I've been playing trucking sims during covid lockdown, and on my gaming steering wheel there are no stalks, only buttons. And I manage alright indicating in time.
 
I've considered the same in mainland Europe, and I'm not too worried.

For once, your steering wheel won't be upside down on normal roundabouts. It will point 90º to the inside, but the advantage you have in the UK means the indicator buttons will be up, so easier to reach with your hand.

On entering the roundabout, there isn't a problem either.

The reason I'm not that worried about the indicators is because I've been playing trucking sims during covid lockdown, and on my gaming steering wheel there are no stalks, only buttons. And I manage alright indicating in time.

In the US here and I drive roundabouts at least 10-15 times per day. No issues. (Well, now I get dinged on the safety score for aggressive turns on them)
 
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In the US here and I drive roundabouts at least 10-15 times per day. No issues. (Well, now I get dinged on the safety score for aggressive turns on them)

OK; but do you activate the indicators before you enter the roundabout or during the roundabout when it's time to leave? I understand that it's not common to indicate to leave the roundabout in the US (I see it frequently here in Aus' too).
 
OK; but do you activate the indicators before you enter the roundabout or during the roundabout when it's time to leave? I understand that it's not common to indicate to leave the roundabout in the US (I see it frequently here in Aus' too).
Americans are terrible at signaling through roundabouts. I grew up in Europe and it's very common over there - not so much over here.

I haven't gone through any roundabouts in the last month I've had my Plaid, but I've wanted to signal with the yoke already spun in various turns, and it's close to impossible if the yoke is at over 90º turn and I don't have my hand on at 9 o'clock position anymore.
 
My go all yoke or go home experience.

 
Halfway round, when I’d like to be indicating left to exit the roundabout, the yoke would be upside down. The left indicator would be pointing right, and my right hand would be on it….
I find it extremely difficult to indicate left to exit the roundabout using a normal wheel/stalk, because my left hand (which holds the 9 o'clock of the wheel) would be roughly at 2 o'clock position as I move through the roundabout, but the indicator stalk is obviously still back at the 9 o'clock position as it's stationary. I can imagine the button being easier to access because it would've moved together with my left hand and would be near my thumb, but I guess I won't know until I try it.