Your help needed: "FOR" Votes for 2015 TSLA Prop 3 and 4

[LargeHamCollider]

Disagree that it should be moved, in a public traded company you get these intersections.

Irrelevent, in publicly traded companies there is an intersection of celebrity opinion (and virtually everything else) and the company, this doesn't mean that Kim Kardashian deserves a thread here. This thread lowers the standard of discourse in the investment forum significantly. It's rated "two stars" for a reason.

 

[bonnie]

Irrelevent, in publicly traded companies there is an intersection of celebrity opinion (and virtually everything else) and the company, this doesn't mean that Kim Kardashian deserves a thread here. This thread lowers the standard of discourse in the investment forum significantly. It's rated "two stars" for a reason.

I'm of the school 'It's a car forum, let's not get too wrapped up around the axle'. If moved, fine by me. If not, that's fine, too. Does it really matter? I mean really REALLY matter? It's mostly anonymous posts where we're all quibbling about pretty much the same thing with pretty much no one changing their mind. Like plenty of other threads.

 

[deonb]

17:00 Crazy Hour
18:00 Meeting Starts
20:00 Meeting ends

Or Big Block of Cheese Day.


(Props to the first person who gets that reference without googling )

 

[Chris TX]

Don't worry, I've got this.View attachment 85700

Is that vegan if you beat it after it's dead? There's no suffering.

On that note, would cattle that died from natural causes be okay to use leather from?

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Cattle don't die from natural causes. Sometimes they die before slaughter but it's because of their squalid living conditions.

 

[Krugerrand]

Cattle don't die from natural causes.

Cattle raised exclusively for food and product stuffs don't usually/typically/pick a word die from natural causes, but it's not true to imply/suggest/pick a word that none of them ever die from natural causes because that's just not true. So the question remains, whether serious or as a matter of funning, 'would a cow that died from natural causes be okay to use' from a vegan's perspective?

 

[MileHighMotoring]

'would a cow that died from natural causes be okay to use' from a vegan's perspective?

Ethical vegans, yes I think they'd be okay with that. Vegans for health reasons, they wouldn't eat meat even if it were lab grown.

 

[EchoDelta]

Ethical vegans, yes I think they'd be okay with that. Vegans for health reasons, they wouldn't eat meat even if it were lab grown.

Personally, I'd say not for an ethical vegan if the cow was born for propose / raised as a product. Dying of natural causes just means they fell off the imaginary conveyor belt earlier; by using the products still fuels demand. These animals lives tend to suck, it's not just that they are killed.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

Well the hypothesis just supposed that this wasn't a death on a factory farm, didn't it? It was a wild cow that died of a heart attack from seeing a Tesla P85D go by really fast.

 

[deonb]

Well the hypothesis just supposed that this wasn't a death on a factory farm, didn't it? It was a wild cow that died of a heart attack from seeing a Tesla P85D go by really fast.

Next year's shareholder's meeting: Petition to limit the speed of the P85D in order to spare heart-attack-on-sight cows.


Though, come to think of it the cow before having a heart attack will probably defecate... so not only will you be able to use the leather after, you'll be able to drive a mile using the manure!

That one was just for you, Bonnie!

 

[eepic]

Well the hypothesis just supposed that this wasn't a death on a factory farm, didn't it? It was a wild cow that died of a heart attack from seeing a Tesla P85D go by really fast.

Relevant: Stampede! SpaceXs Grasshopper Startles Cows | Video - YouTube

 

[Chris TX]

Cattle don't die from natural causes. Sometimes they die before slaughter but it's because of their squalid living conditions.

Tell that to the cattle that have died from blackleg infections at my ranch. Tell that to the calves that were attacked and killed by coyotes. Tell that to the cows that died during calf birthing.

 

[MileHighMotoring]

I doubt I'm going to convince a cattle rancher of anything on the ethical / vegetarian front so I'm not going to waste either of our time.

 

[EchoDelta]

Well the hypothesis just supposed that this wasn't a death on a factory farm, didn't it? It was a wild cow that died of a heart attack from seeing a Tesla P85D go by really fast.

Missed that part of the hypothesis.
Although the notion of a wild cow is suspect.
I'd avoid it instinctually, but it's in the splitting hairs realm of logic.

Another favorite example of mine along those lines: would you eat a salad made of carnivorous plants? ^_^

 

[EchoDelta]

Cattle don't die from natural causes..

Wait, what? Seems like a very restrictive use of the "natural" classification, you mean because they are domesticated and forced into unnatural behaviors/densities/distributions?
Lightning, fires, predators, dehydration, diseases are still there, even if one argues that domestication and husbandry patterns removes many natural defenses against these. But now i may be just splitting hairs for the sake of pseudointellectual banter on a car forum.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Moderator's Note

This thread is now in the Energy, Environment, and Policy forum.

 

[Krugerrand]

But now i may be just splitting hairs for the sake of pseudointellectual banter on a car forum.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Another favorite example of mine along those lines: would you eat a salad made of carnivorous plants? ^_^

Over the years I have read a number of articles/studies suggesting or downright saying that plants have feelings. We know that there are a lot of people who talk to plants, play music for them etc... So, um...

 

[Grendal]

You say that like it's a bad thing.



Over the years I have read a number of articles/studies suggesting or downright saying that plants have feelings. We know that there are a lot of people who talk to plants, play music for them etc... So, um...

Mythbusters tested this theory by having one of their people think happy thoughts at a plant then think angry destructive thoughts at the plant. The plant reacted to the destructive thoughts. That impressed me incredibly.

Found it on YouTube:
Mythbusters - Plants have feelings (primary perception) - YouTube

 

[EchoDelta]

You say that like it's a bad thing.



Over the years I have read a number of articles/studies suggesting or downright saying that plants have feelings. We know that there are a lot of people who talk to plants, play music for them etc... So, um...

Sorry, did not intend to portray it as bad- proof: I am participating in it. But I think it's still that. Kind of like being at a fireplace at 2 am on a beach with strangers, after enough wine has gone around. Ripostes are thrown around as much to answer what's being said as to keep answers flowing.

Your second post is a perfect example- I post a somewhat teasingly ridiculous premise, which opened a door to discuss the definition of life and feelings, possibly a detour into the evolution of their chemo-biological mechanisms, their moral / spiritual / scientific relevance to the topic of being eaten, etc. .. could be fun to go there.
Maybe.
But why people choose to eat some stuff or wrap their cars in it possibly is not a good candidate for logical reductionism.
Would I make "the right" choice eating a carnivorous plant salad of using leather of a cow that got a heart attack from a drive by model S? Fun banter to make us think. The banter is useless the thinking is not.

My life is full of little corners with fallacies and irrational choices I believe it's ok as long as I'm aware of them and I'm happy with the morality of my choices... as evaluated by me.

Sorry I've been off-topic, but now I'm into meta-off-topic and gotta go do stuff

 

[EchoDelta]

Mythbusters tested this theory by having one of their people think happy thoughts at a plant then think angry destructive thoughts at the plant. The plant reacted to the destructive thoughts. That impressed me incredibly.

Found it on YouTube:
Mythbusters - Plants have feelings (primary perception) - YouTube

Cool will watch it later. I like experiments that don't presume we know how everything works!