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Your POV: NEMA 14-50 v. HPWC v. CC-60

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Robert.Boston, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    #1 Robert.Boston, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
    I haven't done anything yet about wiring up my summer place in Maine, and I'm looking for some input.

    Facts: I have an 85kWh MS with single charger. The drive up from Boston is 180 miles. There is no other EV charging within an hour of my place; I live 10 miles off US Route 1. None of my friends currently drive an EV. We are likely to buy a Lit C-1 next year. I only have enough spare capacity on my electric service for a 60A breaker (or 50A). There is no garage.

    Option 1: NEMA 14-50 used with UMC
    • Pros: enough for my purposes; cheap
    • Cons: UMC will be plugged in/out a lot (or buy a dedicated UMC) and exposed to weather; can only charge EVs that bring their own NEMA 14-50 charging cords

    Option 2: Clipper Creek CC-60 (~$800 on EBay)

    • Pros: Dedicated cord lets me keep UMC in the car; charging available for any EV
    • Cons: higher cost; requires me to use J1772 adapter (and therefore no auto-opening of charge port)

    Option 3: HPWC (wired to 60A breaker)

    • Pros: Best looking option; easy to use for MS
    • Cons: highest cost option; no charging for visiting non-MS EVs

    Your thoughts?
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Since it's outdoors and you think there's a probability of other EVs using it, then I'd probably go with the Clipper Creek J1772.

    That said, the Tesla connector is a lot more convenient.

    Not an easy decision!
     
  3. digitaltim

    digitaltim Sig737 VIN628

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    Option 1 is more universal and future proof from my point of view. It is what I did for my NJ/NY apt.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  4. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I think option 1 or 2 is best.

    I wouldn't worry about plugging and unplugging a UMC a lot. You can always buy another adapter for $45 if your plug end starts to wear out. And the receptacle can be replaced for about $10 also.

    Option 2 I think is great if you think other people may benefit from charging where you are.

    I think Option 1 with a dedicated UMC (kept inside) is probably the best and cheapest way to go. You will probably have to buy another EVSE when you get your C-1.
     
  5. Jason S

    Jason S Model S Sig Perf (P85)

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    NEMA 14-50 plugged in as needed. Anything else has greater exposure to failure due to weather, imho. And you wouldn't use more amps since you only have a single charger.

    Clipper Creek would be second choice for an outdoor deployment.
     
  6. wycolo

    wycolo Active Member

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    Since Model_S comes with its own charger, as you know, you don't need to spend $$ for another charger. A 14-50R box costs under $30- at HDepot or Lowes: Eaton/CutlerHammer indoor-outdoor surface mount 'rv power outlet box 50 amps'. Get cable & conduit as needed after you decide on best location and measure. DIY project, with local electrician writing it off if necessary.
    --
     
  7. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    NEMA 14-50 used with UMC

    Option 1: NEMA 14-50 used with UMC

    • Pros: enough for my purposes; cheap
    • Cons: UMC will be plugged in/out a lot (or buy a dedicated UMC) and exposed to weather; can only charge EVs that bring their own NEMA 14-50 charging cords
     
  8. clea

    clea Member

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    being as you only have a single charge you wouldn't need more than a cc-50 in any case so you could save yourself some money this way. or have you considered setting up a 14-50 and buying one of the portable cc models that plug into a 14-50 outlet for any non-tesla ev visitors?
     
  9. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    I'd go with option 1 with a weatherproof/lockable cover. Will the C-1 stay at the cabin, or will you drive it there? How does IT charge?
     
  10. Trnsl8r

    Trnsl8r Blue 85kwh since 12/8/12

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    (Should have made a poll... ;))

    Option 1 I say. And get yourself an extra UMC to keep at the house, just in case.

    Option 2 sounds expensive just for the sake of accomodating non-Tesla EVs. How many visitors are you expecting?

    Option 3 goes away with the single charger and cost.
     
  11. Sparky

    Sparky Member

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    I like Option 2 because the CC-60 is designed for outdoor exposure.
    The UMC is not and to make it semi-permanent you'll need an enclosure and you'll still be Tesla-only.
    If I was doing the install, I'd go ahead and add a 14-50 outlet at the CC-60 mount in case I wanted to use the UMC or some other 14-50 EVSE. I guess it will need to be switched since the panel is near capacity limit.
    One alternative is to buy the CS-40. It's cheaper; then you have enough breaker capacity to run both the UMC and the CC-40. It's only 6mph slower.
    180 miles in ~7 hours vs 6. How likely are you to rush back out after getting there?
    I'm also down for a Lit C-1; next year huh? Hopefully.
     
  12. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    I'm more interested in discussion points than in a show-of-hands. :)
     
  13. montgom626

    montgom626 Active Member

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    #13 montgom626, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
    Nema 14-50

    NEMA 14-50 used with UMC

    Why 14-50? Cheap, easy and can be used by you with your UMC. Also, can have it combined with a 110 outlet. Also, inconspicuous!!!! A dedicated charger locks you into a technology that in 2 years will be out of date. Also, a dedicated charger will be easily seen by any ne'er-do-well who can then vandilize it.

    And, have you ever seen a dedicated charger fail? They do. And when they do, you are screwed. No way to charge and all the hassle of getting the charger diagnosed, get an RMA, send it in for repair and reinstalled. That can take weeks. Then the repaired charger does not work and you do it all over again. And when the dedicated charger is no longer under warranty, you will be really pissed.

    The advantge of the NEMA 14-50 is that it is bullet proof.
     
  14. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    If you want to open it up to others, the Clipper Creek would be nice. If not, a weather proof HPWC (use wire capable of 100A) on appropriate breaker. That way if you ever decide to upgrade, wiring is already there.
     
  15. mitch672

    mitch672 Active Member

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    #15 mitch672, Mar 6, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2013
    How about option 4, build yourself your own OpenEVSE, capable of running at 75A, set it to initially run at 60A maximum, if/when you upgrade your electrical service, you can always change the circuit breaker to a 100A (you would wire it with #3 copper for future proofing it), cost is a little over $600 plus your labor time to build it... Waidy built one following my Wiki: http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/wiki/75AOpenEVSE

    P.S. I use this everyday to charge my Model S, in fact I plug in immediately when I get home, then stop the charging via the iPhone app. When I wake up in the morning, I start charging, this way my SOC is not high for long before I start driving the Model S, it's so fast (62MPH), and I usually arrive home with 160-175 miles of range remaining, it finishes charging in a little over an hour.
     
  16. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

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    Im in the 14-50 with weather cover camp. Future proofed, cheapest option, available for other EV's, and you can always upgrade from there with any or all of the other options, including the OpenEVSE option. Unless you're always at the 2nd place, you won't be plugging/unplugging enough to cause damage to your UMC. If you find that you are constantly plugging/unplugging, well then, buy another UMC which is much cheaper than an EVSE.
     
  17. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Not even a new UMC, just a new NEMA 14-50 adapter for $45.
     
  18. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    It depends on how much you think you'd have someone wanting J1772 charging from you.

    You can always start with a 14-50 now... wire it with #6 THHN in conduit (Romex won't work because it's only rated to 55 amps). If you find yourself needing J1772, then buy an EVSE unit and replace the 14-50 with it later, changing the breaker from 50A to 60A. Existing wiring will work.

    If the 14-50 wears out, a new receptacle is easy enough for you to change and costs like $20... not a big deal.

    This assumes that eventually, SuperCharger coverage makes HPWC-rate charging unnecessary.
     
  19. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Useful advice; thanks. Tesla showed no SuperCharger locations in Maine on its long-term master plan, so I think we're on our own for a while. But given that my property isn't on the main track (9 miles of paved roads, and 1 mile of unpaved road), I'm really not a charging hot-spot regardless.
     
  20. Lyon

    Lyon 2016 S P100DL, 2016 X P90D

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    If other, non-Tesla, EVs visiting is a reality then #2 seems like the best option. If, on the other hand, it's just going to be you using the thing I'd go with number 1 and rig up a lockable, weatherproof box to leave the UMC in while you're out there.
     

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