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Your Powerwall 2 App settings adv. mode with Solar PV and Octopus Agile

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by jimbo_hippo, Nov 13, 2019.

  1. jimbo_hippo

    jimbo_hippo Member

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    #1 jimbo_hippo, Nov 13, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
    Hi all, Firstly, apologies for this being in UK and Ireland rather than the dedicated Energy section but it's rather UK specific.

    Wondering how you folks with a similar setup to ours have your App configured.

    SETUP:

    - 5.9kW of Solar, Tesla Powerwall 2 and we will be on Octopus Agile soon (smart meter fitted today).

    - Nissan Leaf as a second car and a Model 3 arriving in a fortnight.

    - two adults working from home so able to charge cars, washing etc daytimes if we have excess

    Rather than being a dumb 'questioner' I've looked at setting up my peak and off-peak times and studied the pricing examples from Octopus. Based on this I've used the attached screen grab as my base settings. I've made the assumption that the off peak is best set to night-time hours. Because you can toggle the off-peak on or off, leaving it on would appear to create a third price between these hours as a kind of 'No Man's Land' area where anything goes, if available. As a winter setting in Lancs, I wonder if this may be a good option but it is a presumption.

    Because of limited solar on many winter days in the UK I've opted for cost saving mode over balanced as an attempt to force Powerwall charging off peak during the winter months when it's hard to get the Powerwall full.

    I've mimicked the weekday settings on the weekend settings as I see little difference between the two but I'll be monitoring it.


    I'd be interested in how anyone with a similar setup and lifestyle has their app configured with the Agile Octopus Tariff specifically.

    FC14694C-CF35-4596-BE08-4C633DD5DEAF.png
     
  2. VanillaAir_UK

    VanillaAir_UK Moderator UK and Ireland

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    Bet it wont stop you getting answers that have no relevance to our region ;)

    ... or no relevance to your question :rolleyes: think of it as a bump...
     
  3. gangzoom

    gangzoom Active Member

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    This is our setup for Bulb E7 rates, only had it installed just over 1 week, works very well, pretty much all our 'peak' grid usage is now PW + solar. Using 'Cost saving' option.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Last 2 nights have been the first time the PW hasn't charged to 100% overnight, I presume the software is 'learning' how much solar can be generated in 1 cloudy UK November day, did pretty well today PW was 99% full just before the sun disappeared after starting the day just above 90% :)

    [​IMG]

    I've looked the Octopus Go but 4hrs of off peak just isn't enough for our EV use at weekends, and on a rain/wet winter day we can get through the whole PW before 10pm, having the morning 'peak' electricity use of kettle/toaster etc on come in before 'Peak' hours helps. Good thing about Bulb E7 is in summer time the E7 rate is from 130am-830am, so we are actually out of the house before E7 rates end :)
     
  4. ACarneiro

    ACarneiro Member

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    How much does the Powerwall draw when charging?

    Would I be able to charge 2 EVs (32A each) as well as a Powerwall at off peak times?
     
  5. jimbo_hippo

    jimbo_hippo Member

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    GangZoom, Great to see your interpretation. But Agile is a little different. With Agile, you're linked to the wholesale price every 30mins so you have to bridge the peak time with the Powerwall or Solar to win the gamble the tariff brings. So whereas you're seeing anything except your nightime as peak, so daytime is really just another fixed rate, Agile can go sky high with the market at peak (but it's capped at 35p by Octopus) and any time is 'open season' although the night time can be ludicrously cheap.
     
    • Like x 1
  6. jimbo_hippo

    jimbo_hippo Member

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    The Powerwall draws max 3.5kW if I remember correctly ACarneiro. My app seems to confirm this right now with 3.5kW going to the Powerwall and Nissan Leaf drawing the rest but now tailing off to about 2kW at the end of its charge. Bear in mind the LEAF only draws 3kW max at any time (2017 with the slower inbuilt charger) and my Tesla isn't here yet so I don't know how the Gateway prioritises if you're charging 2 EVs and you've set up your Powerwall to charge off peak. I have to wait a another 2 weeks to know that.
     
  7. ACarneiro

    ACarneiro Member

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    I’d be very grateful if you could post that information. Can’t quite afford solar and Powerwall at the same time right now so was thinking of starting with Powerwall for load shifting... :)
     
  8. gangzoom

    gangzoom Active Member

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    Thanks, I've looked at their data before, can I ask why are you going for this traiff instead of E7 ot Go?

    The data from last year showed the agile price was less than 8p per kWh only 2.3% of the time, where as on E7 with bulb its 29% time your paying that price.

    I find it hard to believe your pay less on agile even with a Powerwall than standard E7.

    Am still not even sure Go works if your a heavy EV user, our X can charge for 7hr solid and still not be at 90% SOC If you arrive home with sub 10% after a road trip. And in current weather you really don't want to be leaving home without less than 80%.
     
  9. gangzoom

    gangzoom Active Member

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    When I charge the Tesla as 32amls it seems to bypass the our PW completely and just pull straight from the grid regardless of PW SOC. I haven't tried limiting it to 16amps or lower, but that rate of charge is really slow on our X, and even if you emptied 13kWh of the PW thats barely 20% SOC added over a long period of time.
     
  10. gangzoom

    gangzoom Active Member

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    Just did quick EXCEL plot - which then crashed.

    Average price of Agile prices in E7 time is 10.5p per kWh, with no set time when the cheap rates are. Seems like a lot of hassle to pay more, so why bother?
     
  11. VanillaAir_UK

    VanillaAir_UK Moderator UK and Ireland

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    Certainly use to be the case that if you had other related work as part of solar install you got lower rate VAT on the whole job. It would be a big saving on Powerwall. However I think rules may have changed and PV install may no longer qualify for lower rate VAT.

    You need to crunch the numbers on a Powerwall - the economic numbers for Powerwall at standard price are hard to justify and certainly does not justify itself environmentally on TOU only due to round trip losses > 20% last user info I saw. In our scenario when I crunched numbers of actual 5 minute usage pre 5p rate or EV was payback way outside the usable lifetime of the unit. The big gotya is power and energy limitations on battery storage.
     
  12. ACarneiro

    ACarneiro Member

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    Yes, the economics on load shifting alone aren’t there, but I was viewing this a the first stage, with eventually a solar roof in the future...
    Probably more sensible to wait until powerwall prices come down, I suspect.
     
  13. gangzoom

    gangzoom Active Member

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    The irony is PW prices have been going up in the last 12 months + Gateway 2 is more expensive now as well!

    Across the broad lithium ion battery prices are stubbornly high.

    Interestingly a sub £10k 24kWh Leaf if probably the best 'value' large battery grid storage solution there is.......if you have the skills needed to decouple the battery and use it!
     
  14. VanillaAir_UK

    VanillaAir_UK Moderator UK and Ireland

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    Yep. When an install was 5k I was expecting it to fall, but as you say, it went the other way although I suspect most of the increase is ancillary items and fitting. About 4 years back, so Powerwall 1 days, my break even point financially was a little under £3k. I need to rerun my calculations with current use case, but do not expect financial break even to have changed much. However, this time I plan also to build in CO2 effect too, so not just monetary.
     
  15. redelectrical

    redelectrical New Member

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    #15 redelectrical, Oct 17, 2020 at 7:13 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 17, 2020 at 9:19 AM
    Hi all, new to this forum having just come across this post.

    As a Tesla Certified Installer I wanted to clarify that Powerwall 2 has a maximum charge and discharge rate of 5kW provided it has been set up in G99 mode by the original installer. If it doesn't ever exceed 3.68kW then it has probably been set up in G98 mode.

    The settings can be changed with prior approval from the Distribution Network Operator (DNO). Any Tesla Certified Installer can do this, it just requires an application to the DNO. My local DNO is quite generous when it comes to what they allow us to connect but certain other DNOs are not. The reason some installers choose to use G98 mode is because it is a quicker application process but in my opinion they're not being fair to their customer who deserves to enjoy the full capabilities of their premium battery system.

    I run a similar system to the OP with 6kWp of solar, a Powerwall and the Agile Octopus tariff.

    Kind regards
    Stuart
     
    • Informative x 3
  16. Dilly

    Dilly Member

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    I’m on Octopus Go at the moment. Am I right in thinking that the Powerwall can’t be configured to follow the agile tariff?
     
  17. Country Boy

    Country Boy Member

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    Hi

    I have power wall, Solar, an Ioniq and a Model 3.

    When the power wall charges from the grid, it usually limits itself to 3.6kW, but I have on occasion seen it up to 5kW,

    You need to be very careful with the maximum load... 2x32Amp charger, 21 Amps to power wall.. Run the dishwasher 10amps and you have blown your suppliers 80 amp fuse, and risking a 100amp fuse.

    I have a zappi charger...a great bit of kit... It has current sensing, so will reduce charge rate if you are getting close to the maximum your DNO can supply. It will also handle the solar diversion to the cars... It works impeccably. Can't recommend the zappi enough.
     
  18. Dilly

    Dilly Member

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    I second that. My two V1 Zappi’s have been great.
     

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