YouYou Xue crashed while on autopilot (aka Model 3 Road Trip)

[smak]

Couple things here.

First, I am 51, not a millennial and I and not a snowflake, nor have I ever been triggered. Why? Because I get “responsibilities”

Second, I also wa a pilot and understand what “auto” pilot really means. How did I achieve this amazing knowledge? I read the documentation on the planes I flew and then exercised that aforementioned “responsibility”.

I suggest all of my fellow Tels owners do the same. Including you if you are one. Actually - those of us eager early adopters already do... but I can see lots of issues with the masses getting 3s expecting their usual entitlement.

AutoPilot has been used on planes for decades, but don't newer planes have much more capabilities than older ones?

And that's the point.

 

[shonline]

We also received an extensive amount of classroom and practical training with the aircraft’s automation before using it operationally, in addition to “reading the book”. Tesla is woefully inadequate in the education department. It’s amazing how many Youtube videos there are of people using AP in their newly delivered Model 3s, and obviously have no idea how it works or what it’s supposed to do, other than they are supposed to push the stalk down several times. 10 minutes of each delivery should be devoted to discussing AP, especially its limitations.

True, but most of that classroom training was flight basics, navigation, etc...

My point in comparing was this:

Every time you get in a new aircraft - you have tons to read. Yes, it is a plane, but the systems can be very different.

RTFM applies here

 

[shonline]

I have had my 3 since March 29... and we have nearly 4,000 miles on it. I believe about 2,500 - 3,000 of those miles were driven on autopilot. We use it pretty much all the time on the freeway.

We are new owners and have no prior autopilot experience. Overall I am very impressed by the system. The lane centering system in particular is very good, so good that it’s actually easy to get comfortable and forget to put your hands on the steering wheel. Accidents like these remind us that keeping both hands on the steering wheel is critical.

The main issue in my opinion is phantom braking. The car will from time to time apply sudden braking for no apparent reason. That is extremely annoying and makes autopilot unsafe to use when a vehicle is tailgating you or a truck is behind you. As a work around I always keep my foot on the accelerator, always ready to override in no time.

The phantom breaking seems particularly bad right now, on my AP1 S. Far beyond anything historical. This suggests a software issue that can be fixed.

Can you file a bug report on a 3 using voice control? If so - send it in each time.

 

[dhanson865]

We also received an extensive amount of classroom and practical training with the aircraft’s automation before using it operationally, in addition to “reading the book”. Tesla is woefully inadequate in the education department. It’s amazing how many Youtube videos there are of people using AP in their newly delivered Model 3s, and obviously have no idea how it works or what it’s supposed to do, other than they are supposed to push the stalk down several times. 10 minutes of each delivery should be devoted to discussing AP, especially its limitations.

Before that would be helpful, the delivery specialists would have to be trained on autopilot way way way more than they are. I don't even own a Tesla yet and I know more about them then the average Tesla Store employee.

 

[EVie'sDad]

The crash was indeed avoidable. Tragic? Not so much. Only machinery was killed/injured.

This time, thankfully.

My point is, Whether or not you agree is irrelevant, if you pay less attention, you do so at your own risk. The car isn't going to save you from yourself. It is only level 2 assistance, thus the driver is supposed to take control in any circumstance the vehicle cannot handle. Right now we must pay closer attention when such driver assistance devices are enabled, otherwise we may not live to see levels 3, 4 or 5.

What’s the Difference Between Level 2, Level 3, Level 4, and Level 5 Autonomy?

Hey, here's an idea, the next time you are in a normal Ice vehicle, try enabling cruise control then look away for a minute or two on the highway. See how many times you can do that. If you ignore it long enough, it too can kill you. Auto steering and TACC are in the same class. More vigilance, not less is requested for now until the technology becomes demonstrably proven to be safer when ignored.

 

[Nilnoc]

This time, thankfully.

Exactly!

I’d never heard of YouYou before his crash. But looking at his Facebook postings, it seems to me a crash was inevitable. You can only sleep at the wheel for so many miles before....

That no human was injured is very fortunate indeed.

 

[NeverFollow]

I have difficulty understanding why the car tried to move from the left lane to the right lane?
I had the impression that the car was on the right lane and hit the barrier on the left
like the Sunnyvale, CA accident last month?
Also I am surprise about the very little damage almost unnoticeable made to the barrier?

 

[Plastic6]

These kids both had autopilot engaged!!!

 

[FURY]

The phantom breaking seems particularly bad right now, on my AP1 S. Far beyond anything historical. This suggests a software issue that can be fixed.

Can you file a bug report on a 3 using voice control? If so - send it in each time.

My experience with my Model S AP 1 Build around 11/14 is no change in phantom braking, which hads been minimal, FWIW.

Thank you very much

FURY

 

[chilman408]

I think the scary part is while over the air software updates could fix things, it could also F it up pretty badly.

Scarier part is that no one knows the scrutiny of validation Tesla go thru before releasing these updates.

I mean, releasing a brake enhancement update within a week of being called out by CR scares me.

What test went into it? How does an owner decline an update...

 

[jimmyjohn]

Man; you need to chill.

I think the scary part is while over the air software updates could fix things, it could also F it up pretty badly.

Scarier part is that no one knows the scrutiny of validation Tesla go thru before releasing these updates.

I mean, releasing a brake enhancement update within a week of being called out by CR scares me.

What test went into it? How does an owner decline an update...

 

[shonline]

My experience with my Model S AP 1 Build around 11/14 is no change in phantom braking, which hads been minimal, FWIW.

Thank you very much

FURY

Hmmmm... Mine was a 3/16 build and just started pulling up like a scared pony in the past two builds. wonder if my AP1 hardware is somehow a revision different than yours?

I just arrived in Hartford CT from Woodbridge VA and in addition to some phantom braking I also had some weird slow downs (gentle) for no reason. (open road, no corners, no autosteer limits...) I do this route from South Carolina to the Maind/Canada border twice a year. I promise you, this is new behavior...

 

[shonline]

I think the scary part is while over the air software updates could fix things, it could also F it up pretty badly.

Scarier part is that no one knows the scrutiny of validation Tesla go thru before releasing these updates.

I mean, releasing a brake enhancement update within a week of being called out by CR scares me.

What test went into it? How does an owner decline an update...

ARE you an owner???

 

[MXWing]

I think the scary part is while over the air software updates could fix things, it could also F it up pretty badly.

Scarier part is that no one knows the scrutiny of validation Tesla go thru before releasing these updates.

I mean, releasing a brake enhancement update within a week of being called out by CR scares me.

What test went into it? How does an owner decline an update...

There is an advanced group of owners who receive updates before the general public.

Tesla also tests many builds themselves months in advance before the advanced group receives it. The "silky smooth Autopilot" and "high speed autosteer" that Elon tweeted about having was almost half a year before we saw it.

Toyota "Unintended Acceleration" Has Killed 89 - CBS News

Toyota Failed Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 89
Tesla Model 3 Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 0

Sell your Tesla and get a Volvo.

 

[shonline]

There is an advanced group of owners who receive updates before the general public.

Tesla also tests many builds themselves months in advance before the advanced group receives it. The "silky smooth Autopilot" and "high speed autosteer" that Elon tweeted about having was almost half a year before we saw it.

Toyota "Unintended Acceleration" Has Killed 89 - CBS News

Toyota Failed Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 89
Tesla Model 3 Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 0

Sell your Tesla and get a Volvo.

Amen

 

[chilman408]

ARE you an owner???

I own both a Model X and a Model 3.

Everyone loves OTA updates but it only takes one F up.

I would ask everyone how much they like Windows updates.

 

[chilman408]

There is an advanced group of owners who receive updates before the general public.

Tesla also tests many builds themselves months in advance before the advanced group receives it. The "silky smooth Autopilot" and "high speed autosteer" that Elon tweeted about having was almost half a year before we saw it.

Toyota "Unintended Acceleration" Has Killed 89 - CBS News

Toyota Failed Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 89
Tesla Model 3 Accelerator/Brake Kill Count: 0

Sell your Tesla and get a Volvo.

How many months did Tesla know about the CR braking report to be able test this months in advance?

I mean we all can blow hot air.

 

[MXWing]

How many months did Tesla know about the CR braking report to be able test this months in advance?

I mean we all can blow hot air.

Irrellevent.

You are still responsible for what you bought and drove.

Clearly Tesla’s are for advanced users on the cutting edge which has pros and cons.

Don’t like it, don’t buy it.

Though I’m sure you will keep buying and keep complaining.

No one forced you into windows and no one forced you into a Tesla.

“All is takes is one f up” applies to practically everything so useless statement to make.

 

[chilman408]

Irrellevent.

You are still responsible for what you bought and drove.

Clearly Tesla’s are for advanced users on the cutting edge which has pros and cons.

Don’t like it, don’t buy it.

Though I’m sure you will keep buying and keep complaining.

No one forced you into windows and no one forced you into a Tesla.

“All is takes is one f up” applies to practically everything so useless statement to make.

I opted not to buy EAP at the point of purchase.

I'm not complaining about Tesla in general just how their software is handled and specifically Auto-Pilot and FSD. These are half baked and Tesla does not have the technical horse power to climb out of this for the EAP or FSD purchases to be worth the money.

BTW, there are regulations around verification and validation of safety critical software. So blowing hot air around a set of owners validating SW for Tesla is ridiculous because ''recalls' is everything an Auto company need to avoid.

 

[MXWing]

I opted not to buy EAP at the point of purchase.

Great. I wish there were more people who knew their risk tolerance and limitations as you do. You wouldn’t be moronic enough to repeatedly engage AP in a situation knowingly that it could kill you.

In any case it’s an enhancement. An enhancement via software or take it in is the same difference.

There’s no rule saying a modification in a shop would never make things worse.