Zendure Superbase-V is a DIY PowerWall starting at $2499 and as little as 41¢/Wh

[israndy]

https://zendure.com/pages/superbasev

I saw the ad on Electrek and I checked it out. This is a portable 120/240-volt 3800-watt portable modular power station on powered wheels that can be charged from public EV chargers or up to 3000-watt solar arrays or just plugged into either 120 or 240v for a combined 6.6kW charging rate, as little as a 1 hour recharge.

Zendure SuperBase V Power Station - Zendure

SuperBase V is the first home energy storage system with semi-solid state batteries for greater storage capacity and superior safety. With dual 120V/240V output, input up to 6,600W, the industry's fastest solar charging performance, seamless UPS feature, and customizable systems with up to 64kWh...

zendure.com

Stackable battery modules can quintuple the power storage to 32 kWhs, and two systems can be merged into one with twice the kWs and twice the kWh, able to run your entire house from battery. Zendure offers a device called the Home Panel that acts as an automatic transfer switch to cover up to 10 circuits in case of a power outage. All batteries, the inverters, 10 circuits and two 240v outlets for EV charging on the Home Panel can be controlled by the Phone App from anywhere via WiFi or locally via Bluetooth.

There's a Kickstarter campaign currently underway and ending Sat, November 19 2022 8:45 AM PST with discounts as much as 46% on the retail pricing.

I initially thought I would get just the cheapest setup as I worry about failed Kickstarter projects, but then I got my $3600 Apple bag-check lawsuit proceeds and I ended up ordering a second Superbase (only $700 more than buying just an expansion battery), and if I have two systems I have to get the Home Panel. I did design and install my own micro-inverter based solar system, and I have been trying to add a battery to it for almost the 3 years I have had it installed.

If ONLY Tesla would have sold me/installed a PowerWall I'da been happy, but this 10kWh whole house system is $6650 delivered, hopefully this November. And I won't need 3 other guys to help me carry it.

Check out the links, as this product is great for all sorts of other situations too:

• The modular batteries can be used directly in an RV as the house battery with solar charging, or batteries if you want more storage, up to four can be stacked and that would be as much power as ANY modern lithium based RV.
• The main unit can be charged at a Public EV charger and then used later to charge your EV to get a bit of extra range
• The battery tech inside can be LFP and store 4.6kWh in each battery module, but they also support the somewhat heavier Semi-Solid State tech that supports 6.4kWh in the same space, but allowing charging down to -20°F, and having much safer damage characteristics.

 

[israndy]

 

[sunwarriors]

Do these qualify for the federal 30% tax credits? I don't see it listed on the FAQ or on the main page. I've seen many videos with the Ecoflow and did math calcs and this at the kickstarter price looks good, at full MSRP, if it doesn't qualify for a tax credit, might be similar in cost to traditional energy storage (but that's not mobile).

Good for apartment dwellers, RVs, etc for sure.

 

[wwu123]

Interesting...

Am I reading correctly that a single Superbase V can supply 240V, so if I don't draw more than 3.8kw peak, I can back up both some 120V and 240V loads in their home panel? (Not that I have any "small" 240V loads, just curious.)

The EcoFlow Delta Pro intrigued me for similar functionality, I think one of the "competitive" comparisons on Zendure looks awfully like the EcoFlow. This seems to be advertising more sophisticated software functionality, maybe even ability to take the backed-up home panel into self-powered mode based on TOU. Maybe no Export Everything arbitrage like the Powerwalls though.

 

[cali8484]

How heavy is it?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Could this be used to provide emergency power for stranded EV?

 

[wwu123]

Could this be used to provide emergency power for stranded EV?

The Kickstarter options state the Superbase V comes with a "car charging cable", so I initially though the answer is yes. But looking at one of the Youtube video's, I think it's actually an INPUT cable/adapter to charge the Superbase FROM a public J1772 EV charger, not an output cable TO an EV.

That said, the wheeled Superbase does have 240V 6-20 output and 120V TT-30 output, so should be able to to charge an EV with the right plug adapters. I'm guessing it's not a promoted use case, as it just dredges up the old range anxiety and "running out of battery" concerns that hinder, not promote, electrification...

 

[israndy]

I have been to so many EV shows where there is a guy with a home built solar generator that he is charging his Leaf from, it'll be nice to be able to show up with my Model 3 and a Superbase and a solar panel.

And to they guy asking how heavy it is, the specs show 121lbs or 130lbs for the Semi Solid State battery version.

 

[israndy]

I may have just been talked OUT of buying these devices in a single YouTube video:

 

[sunwarriors]

I'm not sold from that video. People should really run the numbers for their needs though.

A bit unfair I suppose to ever compare DIY vs. a company supported product. Sorta like someone comparing a standalone all-feature NAS vs. a PC running some storage on the network. In the past, stand alone batteries weren't able to qualify for tax credits so when I ran numbers comparing with Eco-flow and my Enphase setup, I was saving like no real $$ IMO. Not sure if that's changed in the new IRA plan.

$2800 vs. $3700
$900 isn't much. Even from that video, I'd say the $900 is way better than that mess of a DIY system (it looks like a hack to me). The Ecoflow or your Zendure is far more nice looking, far more portable, has everything built in and needs 0 effort.

Overall, I still think these portable batteries are a bit pricey and would still go with main systems fully supported. A lot of these DIY things, if there's a problem, you're SOL or you have to debug it yourself.

Do you really want to waste your time figuring everything out?

For someone who can get like 2 batteries for $25k, add in 30% tax credit and SGIP (if so lucky), you're at $13.5k. Can these portables compete at those prices?

 

[israndy]

Either way I would have to figure things out. The Zendure people will probably fall down on Tech Support, though at least they have a facility in Walnut Creek, like 25 minutes away. The DIY solution will be all me that installed and configured it, but I agree, having a solution that I can use in multiple scenarios would be smart.

I don't know if I can get ANY home battery that I install myself to apply for the tax credit, so I'd be spending 3x on the same capability as the Zendure at Kickstarter pricing to have someone install one.

I can't tell from your final comment if you are PRO or CON on the DIY or on the Portable options, it sounds like you are pro real Powerwalls or other home batteries. Sadly I cannot get those installed as I ALREAY have a solar system I installed so I would have to have Sunrun or Tesla install a NEW solar system on TOP of the one I have for them to install a home battery.

 

[mikesm]

Well, the Powerwalls seems very overpriced for the storage. Perhaps a better "portable" solution is an EV. A new F-150 lightning trick costs about $40K in the base configuration and has 98 KWh of storage. Yes, it does take a lot more room than the powerwalls, but has has the equivalent of 7 Powerwalls of storage. The extended range version is 131 kWh.

I am not saying that you can use it as a Powerwall per se, but as a baseline for pretty advanced battery storage, particularly if you are interested in load shifting that doesn't need huge amounts of surge power, it is an interesting cost comparison to Powerwalls for $/kWh of storage. Plus you get a truck with it.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Well, the Powerwalls seems very overpriced for the storage. Perhaps a better "portable" solution is an EV. A new F-150 lightning trick costs about $40K in the base configuration and has 98 KWh of storage. Yes, it does take a lot more room than the powerwalls, but has has the equivalent of 7 Powerwalls of storage. The extended range version is 131 kWh.

I am not saying that you can use it as a Powerwall per se, but as a baseline for pretty advanced battery storage, particularly if you are interested in load shifting that doesn't need huge amounts of surge power, it is an interesting cost comparison to Powerwalls for $/kWh of storage. Plus you get a truck with it.

Is it capable of vehicle to grid?

 

[jjrandorin]

A new F-150 lightning trick costs about $40K in the base configuration and has 98 KWh of storage.

Thats putting together things that do not go together. The base configuration of the truck for this discussion is not relevant, because it will not offer that feature. You also will not be pulling up to your home with your truck and just "plugging in" without several thousand dollars of equipment installed by SunRun, including a specific charger from ford and other needed equipment.

Im all for choice, but I am not for mis information, and intimating someone can buy a 40k ford lighting and then use some version of V2H is not accurate.

 

[sunwarriors]

Either way I would have to figure things out. The Zendure people will probably fall down on Tech Support, though at least they have a facility in Walnut Creek, like 25 minutes away. The DIY solution will be all me that installed and configured it, but I agree, having a solution that I can use in multiple scenarios would be smart.

I don't know if I can get ANY home battery that I install myself to apply for the tax credit, so I'd be spending 3x on the same capability as the Zendure at Kickstarter pricing to have someone install one.

I can't tell from your final comment if you are PRO or CON on the DIY or on the Portable options, it sounds like you are pro real Powerwalls or other home batteries. Sadly I cannot get those installed as I ALREAY have a solar system I installed so I would have to have Sunrun or Tesla install a NEW solar system on TOP of the one I have for them to install a home battery.

I'm generally against DIY purely from $$ because assuming it doesn't qualify for any tax credit, does it become that great of a deal? If it does qualify though, then there is no doubt it'll be far cheaper. Remember still that with DIY, you have 0 support. Things break in a year, you're probably on your own with massive paper weights so I feel it's unfair to compare two unlike items. I haven't researched enough to know warranties on Ecoflow or Zendure, but I assume it's more than 1 year vs. no real warranty from DIY.

I wanted powerwalls initially, but the lack of knowing when they would come in from the installer made me look elsewhere. I'm an Enphase fan if you look at all my posts. LFP, large enough of a company (38 billion) to not be niche and install base is getting larger by the day, they have live integrated generator support working already, they are working on V2H right now (they said 2024 or something for updates).

If you price shop powerwalls that's not Tesla, I didn't see much/any difference with Enphase vs. Powerwalls since 3rd party installers can't offer Tesla prices. You can probably find an independent installer to do Tesla batteries right now or some other battery maker, but all IMO, I'm happier with the Enphase storage solution even though it's less kWh vs. the powerwalls. I hear people post the PWs makes noises to cool it down when it's hot, but LFP is all passive cooling so it's a hum at worst.

The downside (there are downsides) is you're 'locked' into their system/ecosystem. Enphase doesn't work with SPAN panels. I don't look at it as a bad thing if you're happy with that tech/ecosystem, but I can understand folks who are very DIY may not like that (why I'm on Android and not iOS).

If I was in your shoes, I'd see if these portables qualify for a tax credit and if it doesn't, price compare other battery makers in addition to a powerwall. In terms of pricing, 1 PW or 1 enphase is pretty much never worth it due to having other pieces needed and installers mark it up a lot, but if you can swing for a bit more, I think having 20kWh+ is sorta the sweet spot and hope that V2H will be more widespread in 5 years so by then, we can all V2H our cars for more redundancy. I also like how enphase is more modular. My install had issues and some batteries were DOA...Still, they swapped them out and the others were working fine.

One downside with powerwalls IMO is Elon has come out against V2H before as it will eat into their Powerwall sales so until that changes, I don't think it's a good strategy to wait for V2H from Tesla.

 

[RKCRLR]

I don't know if I can get ANY home battery that I install myself to apply for the tax credit, so I'd be spending 3x on the same capability as the Zendure at Kickstarter pricing to have someone install one.

Even if the hardware qualifies for the tax credit your DIY labor won't. Just something to keep in mind that the tax credit covers 30% on the install labor cost.

 

[israndy]

While doing it myself covers 100% of that cost

 

[sunwarriors]

Can you just buy PWs yourself and do all the labor yourself or you need to be licensed/approved by Tesla to get warranty?

 

[israndy]

I have been TRYING to find that out for 3 years now. I have seen a few people on craigslist who were selling the hardware that they got as part of the referral promotions back in the day. I could not find ANYONE who could confirm or deny that actual human beings could hook up their own PowerWall. Ryan McCaffrey has a Tesla podcast and he ended up hiring a solar company to install his and install solar for his house. I already have solar that I installed myself, so I would like to add batteries to it, but how do I get in Tesla's good graces and have them PTO my system?

Thus I have NOT purchased anyone's PowerWall system off craigslist

 

[jboy210]

Can you just buy PWs yourself and do all the labor yourself or you need to be licensed/approved by Tesla to get warranty?

Given the scarcity of Powerwalls I assume they will want a Tesla or approved reseller to install. They have more demand than supply and can minimize the risk and/or support calls being selective.