Zero:Net - The UK's open Charging Network

[dpeilow]

I'm not doubting that ultimately this is the best way to go. My complaint is that it is too early for this to be the only way to go.

I am with one of the banks you quote up thread. The reality is that they are always conservative with their roll-outs. You may have been fortunate enough to get a tag or sticker, but it is not the situation across the UK. As I have said, when I inquired I was told no I cannot jump the queue. Those unfortunate enough to have been issued cards earlier this year may face a 3 year wait.

If this comes across as me stirring it, it isn't meant to be. As soon as saw the tap and charge thing, I thought yes I want to be in on that, but it's a no go. Perhaps you can issue prepaid cards that can be used with the terminals until such times as NFC credit cards or other devices are universal? The risk is that you actually create the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

The risk is that you actually create the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.

Sorry but with every major card vendor moving into this space the die is already cast.... this will be the technology of choice even if you don't see it yet.... Barclays are the first mainstream brand to enter the charging space in the UK and early next year they will be followed by several more 'well known' brands :smile:

Don't forget that you already 'went out of your way' to get a Chargemaster RFID card... now imagine that the next credit card you receive through the post has NFC built in and you join the 15 million cards that are already in circulation in the UK.

 

[dpeilow]

I don't doubt that. I'm saying if you are launching this now, then you risk drivers turning up and not having the right type of card/badge/smartphone or whatever. Of course they are all going NFC but it is not happening overnight. Please stop selective quoting me.

I know of one guy at work who has one of these cards. He got it about 6 weeks ago. It caused a stir because being RF geeks we all started to see how we could probe it. That is not the picture you paint of it being commonplace in the UK.

I did not go 'out of my way' to get a Chargemaster card. I picked it up in a Little Chef and then when they announced their £10 per year offer a couple of weeks later, I phoned up and registered it. That is a world away from having to change banks just to get an NFC card, or registering with another credit card company to get a special card with associated fees just for this purpose.


So Barclay's are actually in the provision of charge points game as well now?

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

I don't doubt that. I'm saying if you are launching this now, then you risk drivers turning up and not having the right type of card/badge/smartphone or whatever. Of course they are all going NFC but it is not happening overnight.

With 15 million NFC cards in circulation in the UK today we are hardly at the beginning of the deployment.

 

[TEG]

For what it is worth, I have used by "PayPass" RFID enabled MasterCard to activate ChargePoint stations here in the USA...
Electric vehicle charging through pay pass ... - Credit-Land.com

 

[dpeilow]

With 15 million NFC cards in circulation in the UK today we are hardly at the beginning of the deployment.

And neither did I say we were. This effectively started with the Mondex system in Swindon in the 1990s so it's been coming a long time.

The issue is that we are no where near critical mass with it. I have 7 credit/debit cards from various suppliers for personal, joint and business accounts and not one of them has NFC and neither have I been offered an upgrade for any of them.

I'm not sure what the argument is here. We all agree that this is the way to go, but we are far from the point where NFC can be used as the sole method by which a charge point can be activated. If I have to get a Barclaycard just to activate a post, that's no different to any other of the 5 smartcards I have in my glovebox.

- - - Updated - - -

For what it is worth, I have used by "PayPass" RFID enabled MasterCard to activate ChargePoint stations here in the USA...

It appears that these take RFID payments and can use a Coulomb membership card as well, is that right?

 

[dpeilow]

So to answer my own question, customers can use Coulomb's own ChargePass membership card or a contactless credit card on those stations TEG.

- - - Updated - - -

With 15 million NFC cards in circulation in the UK today we are hardly at the beginning of the deployment.

According to The UK Cards Association there are 147.2 million credit and debit cards in the UK, so NFC is available on 10% of them. As I said, not yet critical mass.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Zero:Net has 152 locations live today...

 

[dpeilow]

Excellent. I shall be checking out one of the new ones on Tuesday.

I also bought a Galaxy S3 LTE today.

 

[markwj]

Re: RFID, etc

For comparison, Hong Kong charging stations are 99% either dumb sockets on the wall or octopus stations.

Octopus card - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We've had Octopus here for 15 years and it is the standard micro-payment solution. Everything from the underground through 7-11 uses it. Even parking meters on the street. Glad to see the charging stations adopt it.

There are a handful of stations using custom dumb RFID tags. Pathetic, and will hopefully go the way of the dinosaurs.

 

[dpeilow]

Excellent. I shall be checking out one of the new ones on Tuesday.

I also bought a Galaxy S3 LTE today.

Meant Wednesday, sorry.


So I got the S3 LTE today. An amazing phone, no wonder Apple have decided to go down the route of litigate not innovate. Good job Samsung (and Google for Android 4.1).

Unfortunately, while I was looking forward to firing up the NFC contactless payment app to see what the fuss is about, turns out that it doesn't yet support the LTE version. I'm sure it's just a dumb version check thing that Barclaycard hasn't updated, but it shows that this tech isn't quite plain sailing yet.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Yes - in the case of a ground up design that is fully integrated into the car's other electronics. But in that very thread you linked to they talk about $1 per Watt, maybe $0.50 best for an aftermarket charger to integrate into the LEAF.

All I can tell you is that this stuff exists and can be delivered at low cost... the ZOE demonstrates what's possible today and I've been amazed by what's going on behind the scenes as we've got involved in Formula E.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Yesterday we penned an agreement that will see another 1600 pubs in the UK with Level 2 Charging Stations (both 22kW and 43kW) and I have no doubt that within a few years we will have blanket coverage here. While these power levels are not 'fast' the hardware is cheap enough for every location to install several Charging Stations.

I've been 'happy' with 7kW and 16kW charging of the Roadster on my road trips... however, ~20kW (or better still 43kW) would transform the Model S owners experience here.

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

but it shows that this tech isn't quite plain sailing yet.

I was at a trade show yesterday where infrastructure executives were falling over themselves to play with the tap-n-charge posts and without exception they commented on how easy it is to use.

In Mid-November I'm meeting with a minister, tap-n-charge developers, and one of the top six UK energy companies, to discuss a national roll out of the network. ALL the card vendors are supportive of this technology.

By way of comparison, if you do some research into your favourite RFID company you'll find reshuffling at the top and strained partnerships... IMO RFID vendors cannot possibly survive with their current business model and reliance on proprietary payment networks.

 

[jcstp]

Curious what Tesla has in project for the EU

Anyhow congratulations with your new chargingnetwork additions!

With all your hints towards future possibilities, you made me curious!
I think I will stay a few extra years on this planet, only to be able to witness these rapid changes! ;-)

 

[dpeilow]

I was at a trade show yesterday where infrastructure executives were falling over themselves to play with the tap-n-charge posts and without exception they commented on how easy it is to use.

In Mid-November I'm meeting with a minister, tap-n-charge developers, and one of the top six UK energy companies, to discuss a national roll out of the network. ALL the card vendors are supportive of this technology.

By way of comparison, if you do some research into your favourite RFID company you'll find reshuffling at the top and strained partnerships... IMO RFID vendors cannot possibly survive with their current business model and reliance on proprietary payment networks.

I'm not denying any of that, but my point still stands: Relying solely on a technology that is only available on 10% of cards - and that, despite my asking, cannot be got from my mainstream bank until my card is due for renewal - is too premature. I'm motivated to get this and I can't. It needs to offer a second means of activation at least until NFC cards are at critical mass.

As soon as I have a means to pay and I can use these to charge at 16A then I will be shouting it from the rooftops.

I'm sure the whole industry will move towards NFC payments in the long run. There's nothing to stop the others arriving there from the other direction. They already have the hardware.

 

[jcstp]

Is there a possibility to activate tap-n-charge on a smart-phone via an app? maybe use pay-pal then to pay then

 

[Kevin Sharpe]

Is there a possibility to activate tap-n-charge on a smart-phone via an app? maybe use pay-pal then to pay then

Really no need... with 15 million NFC cards in circulation in the UK, and the number growing everyday, this will be in your pocket, on your phone, or in your car key before you know it.

Every major retailer in the UK is going down this path... I can't share everything I know because of NDA's but this is already a done deal :smile:

 

[jcstp]

wonder if foreigners visiting the UK need a specific creditcard, or can buy a kind of "pre-paid" card

kind of a "zerocarbonworld creditcard" that you can use to charge, and buy a cofee nearby

 

[dpeilow]

Uh oh

Apple secures patent for NFC alternative technology - Tech News - Digital Spy