FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[EVNow]

It's much easier for a human, as we have a visual range of about 3 miles. If the Telsa had cameras with a 2500 feet distance, it would likely perform much better.

"visual range" of 3 miles ? What does that even mean ? You can recognize a car from 3 miles away ? I doubt it. OTOH, we can obviously see stars that are light years away

Visual acuity is definitely better than Tesla camera. Or for that matter any camera. I've posted about this before. But our eyes didn't evolve to recognize cars coming from either side so we can't take UPLs. So, thats not the standard.

 

[cyborgLIS]

Hypothetical question: What would happen if you tried to engage FSD in an area where it is not supported, e.g. if you drove it to Mexico or shipped it overseas? Are there geo-restriction checks in place?

 

[JB47394]

It's much easier for a human, as we have a visual range of about 3 miles. If the Telsa had cameras with a 2500 feet distance, it would likely perform much better.

Topically, have that remotely-driven car service try that left turn a couple dozen times with a HW3 Model Y, and see how well people can drive using only cameras. That would set an interesting baseline for performance.

 

[EVNow]

Hypothetical question: What would happen if you tried to engage FSD in an area where it is not supported, e.g. if you drove it to Mexico or shipped it overseas? Are there geo-restriction checks in place?

I remember someone tried FSD before it was available in Canada and there was no restriction.

 

[kpanda17]

back from 500 miles of east coast FSD 12.3.6, very happy with the FSD performance

same edge case stands, two different states, you guys try this

miss aligned intersection, lanes from one side to the other side dont line up and vehicles have to move slightly to the right as they cross
with FSD, when you are in the left lane, about to cross the intersection as the lead vehicle, FSD goes straight across, not following map data, and I have to disengage as it is going into the oncoming traffic's left turning lane
hope I described this correct

hoping 12.4 fixes this

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Who else agrees with @AlanSubie4Life that Chuck's turn is simple for a human?

It’s possible for conditions to exist which make this turn slightly difficult but we have rarely seen Chuck test those. Apples apples.

 

[rlsd]

Hypothetical question: What would happen if you tried to engage FSD in an area where it is not supported, e.g. if you drove it to Mexico or shipped it overseas? Are there geo-restriction checks in place?

I will drive back to the US.

 

[cyborgLIS]

I remember someone tried FSD before it was available in Canada and there was no restriction.

Interesting. Would love to see a brave Youtuber test out v12 outside of the designated regions. At least in a country with right-hand traffic so it stands a chance.

 

[kpanda17]

It’s possible for conditions to exist which make this turn slightly difficult but we have rarely seen Chuck test those. Apples apples.

Chuck's is one of the hardest, bad visibility in both directions, medium where you might have to wait if you miss read the right coming traffic
its an amazing edge case that will be huge once conqured

I had one today, coming out of a parking lot into a very busy road, divided three lanes on each side, have to go right
I was close to an intersection that FSD wanted to make a left at
FSD went out, going right, put on the turn signal for the left turning lane, there was a line of vehicles waiting to turn, it miss estimated and could not go into the left turning lane
turned off the turn signal, waiting at the light in the left lane, went straight to the next light and made a U turn
no disengagement and but saw the error
not easy to recreate for I need that left turning lane to be full

 

[Daniel in SD]

bad visibility in both directions

Are we talking about the same turn? I can see fine looking at YouTube video. I've never seen Chuck have to abort for something that wasn't easily visible on the wide angle camera (which is far lower resolution than human eyes).

 

[cyborgLIS]

What's interesting about Chuck's turn is that it's an uncommon traffic pattern; at least I've never really seen it in my travels. It's apparent the developers payed special attention to this turn for whatever reason. The visualization highlights the medium (is that what it's called?) in light blue. I haven't seen that iconography in any other context. Perhaps it's just an extension of how it would highlight the target lane when the car is changing lanes. But that was removed in v12 and yet still exists for this specific scenario.

I do have a traffic pattern similar to this in my area but it's much safer because the driver is sheltered on both sides by medians while they wait. I will have to remember to map myself though this intersection one day.

Edit: Looking at his video again, I realize his road has the medians as well.

 

[sleepydoc]

I will bet on whatever you want, as long as we can find a way to ensure (define) that it is actually tested with traffic present.

Moving the goal posts!

No one could have imagined it would be this hard, given the simplicity of this turn for a human.

Simplicity? Hardly. We’ve seen here how many human drivers prefer to take a right turn then a U turn and how UPS tries to avoid UPLs (or ULTs or UnPLTs) completely. No, it’s not simple for humans, either.

 

[sleepydoc]

I'm also having trouble imagining how you could safely drive a car remotely. Anyone who's played a video game over the internet knows input lag is not your friend.

Don’t you remember? That was the promise of 5G - ultra low latency! Verizon convinced us all to get it on our phones so we could use them to drive our Teslas remotely.

 

[sleepydoc]

Set up a YouTube account which is easy, upload the video their then create a link here. Voila!

Easy for most. This is @FSDtester#1 we’re talking about here…

 

[joelkfla]

I think Tesla needs to provide a one-click button to change speed control from/to auto/manual while FSD is running.

Or a voice command.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

So tired of waiting for 12.4, I had to pick something up I have to actually drive myself:
Man, it sucks getting old. Heat, A/C,and power windows in a UTV…

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Moving the goal posts!

Huh? I don't have any idea what this means or is a reference to. There are no goal posts near this turn.

I've literally ALWAYS specified that having decent amounts of traffic was required. The problem has been definition. It's been such an easy bet to win that I haven't even had to worry about that provision. If anything, the goal posts have been moved the other direction!

 

[Dewg]

That wasn't the question though. Do you consider Chuck's UPL a simple turn?

To be pedantic, all turns are simple given the right traffic conditions. Crossing 4 lanes each way is easy when there's no other cars around.

3 lanes each way with a median and moderate traffic is not simple. Heck, a 2 lane road with heavy traffic can be impossible within a reasonable amount of time. I was at a restaurant a few weeks ago, and needed to turn left from the parking lot. It was a 2 lane road (1 lane each way), and there were a few cars ahead of me trying to make the left as well. Traffic was bad enough that the car at the front just sat there with no opening to make the left. The car behind him honked a few times and eventually both gave up and just made the right turn instead. I came up and waited about a minute (there was no one behind me) before I gave up and made the right turn. Does that time factor and heavier traffic make that turn difficult?

 

[Mardak]

Would love to see a brave Youtuber test out v12 outside of the designated regions

This article Watch Tesla FSD Save the Day in Moldova, It Should Work Perfectly on European Roads - autoevolution says it's a US salvage Model Y brought to Moldova and also used FSD 12.x in Romania too.

 

[Dewg]

"visual range" of 3 miles ? What does that even mean ? You can recognize a car from 3 miles away ? I doubt it. OTOH, we can obviously see stars that are light years away

Visual acuity is definitely better than Tesla camera. Or for that matter any camera. I've posted about this before. But our eyes didn't evolve to recognize cars coming from either side so we can't take UPLs. So, thats not the standard.

The separation power of the average human eye, in good light, is about 1 minute of arc, or about 0.0003 radians, or about 0.29 mils, Which means that an average observer --

• Can see a person (as a dot) at about 2 or 3 km or 1 or 2 miles, provided that the person wears clothing which makes a good contrast on the background.
• Can distinguish the upper and lower body of a person at about 500 to 700 meters.
• Can distinguish the head of a person at about 250 meters.
• Can distinguish the eyes of a person at about 100 meters.
• Can distinguish the irises of the eyes of a person at about 25 meters.

A car is significantly larger than a pedestrian.