Full FSD Free Trial: Why I'd never buy it . . . ever.

[andy.connor.e]

In my experience there are alot of people that intentionally put it in tough situations and over embellish what actually happened for internet fame.

 

[zoros]

This conversation is nuts,
Humans run on emotion - hence they are capable of running red lights. Computers run on logic - thus UNABLE to run a red light. Why is there evidence that EV's run red lights - because the software is unreliable and until this is resolved - FSD is going nowhere. Think years and years not months for FSD to be allowed complete freedom on the roads.

 

[FASTTTT]

Never in a million years. Like many I received the free FSD trial in my 2023 Model 3 Performance. I accepted. And though I still have a few days left will not sign up for it - and - from a safety perspective - would never use it.

Opinion: [Yes - opinion based on my driving it all over town]
[My driving experience - I am an aggressive driver. I have owned a 911 for ten years. I own an FX4 3.5L 2019 F150. I also own a 2013 off road upgraded Wrangler JK. I have done Bondurant. I have road driving skills and off road driving skills. I am an instrument rated pilot and have a tail wheel endorsement - I am used to having a fast OODA loop and drive the same way. I have never had an accident, and have never been convicted of a moving violation - my insurance record is pristine. That said - I don't want anyone monitoring my driving because an insurers bot would determine after 50 years of perfect driving I'm a horrible risk. Competence is shown by facts, not actuarial conclusions based on G force and throttle use.]

FSD stinks. Two words. Its slow, buggy, inefficient, operates last second, scares the crap out a driver who is looking three cars ahead, and, sometimes, disconnects when it gets confused.

Specifics:
We have an intersection where there are three lanes. I come in from the T. There are two travel lanes. The right lane coming from the left exits right and there is a physical barrier to prevent people from continuing. The entry lane from the T is dedicated for 100 yards - with rubber traffic cones preventing anyone from exiting the lane or coming into the new lane. FSD literally gives up and disconnects at this intersection every single time. While many humans also hesitate here because they cannot process what they are seeing - FSD gives up, after approaching the intersection at 10 mph and being unable to process the lanes and entry.

Next, changing lanes. FSD is like a blind and deaf 85 year old in a 65' Coupe D'Ville. If there is a gap in the lane next to you that requires a simple 3-5mph acceleration, you'll never make it - the car ALWAYS slows down first and will not speed up and will not make a lane change in less than 10 seconds - it takes FOREVER to decide its safe to go. If you've ever been in LA or NYC traffic and needed to change lanes you need to jump in the lane before the other car occupies the space - FSD would NEVER do that.

Curves: If you are coming arounbd a curve with an empty lane in front of you but the other lane or lanes are backed up, FSD will slam on the brakes to stop 'seeing' a car in front of you even though there is no one in your lane. This is not a complex algo - 'see the lane,' see where the vehicles actually are - a computer that it 10,000x faster than a human mind should be able to do this.

Speed limits: Yes - I exceed the limit occasionally along with 95% of other drivers - beeping to get my attention that FSD will not brake is not helpful. All the beeping for every little thing is annoying - and distracting as hell.

Following distances: FSD is jerky - it wants to maintain a distance but is slow to accelerate and then slow to decelerate. In the average scenario where I could simply remove my foot from the accelerator and coast to a stop /hold - the car continues to use throttle and hits the brakes once it ascertains the closing rate is increasing. Likewise, on the highway, it slows down when it sees a faster vehicle and then takes its sweet time accelerating back up to speed - and sometimes never does. even basic autopilot has this issue. This is atypical to how a driver operates a vehicle. I see a red light I start to feather a throttle to come to a stop before coming to the light or line of cars - thats efficient driving.

To anyone who likes their self driving program - I'll dare you to a trip. Anywhere - rush hour, not rush hour. We start from the same point and same time - and I'll bet you that even if we drive the same speeds I'll still beat you to the destination and have more power remaining. . . . and not have to see my BP jump up because the car turns into a turn slow or disconnects or comes roaring up on group of stopped cars and slams on the brakes.

This is not how a trained driver drives - and certainly not how most humans drive either.

I agree with many of your points, particularly as a pilot myself. but my perception of this system is different. while it is called Full Self Driving, in no way do I consider it that. I use it as an aide in specific situations where it excels, similar to my Cirrus's autopilot, which I would never use to land or takeoff, but is fine droning along a flight plan and approach once airborne. the fact that I can push a button and have the car handle monotonous stop and go rush hour is worth the $100 hamburger in my book. blue skies and tailwinds....

 

[FASTTTT]

They also may not have been leapfrogged by Mercedes to level 3, or Ford/GM at hands free driving.

I am not sure the Mercedes system is truly level 3. at least not in my experience.

 

[beatle]

Their system is pretty (very) restrictive on where it can be activated for that level of autonomy, but at least they're pushing the envelope:

Mercedes-Benz becomes first automaker to sell Level 3 autonomous vehicles in the US

Mercedes' Level 3-enabled cars went on sale in December, though they are only able to be legally sold in California and Nevada, writes Fortune. The two states'...

www.techspot.com

I would settle for a pretty good level 2 that allows me to take my hands off the wheel during my commute or on long stretches of boring highway - basically Ford and GM ADAS today.

 

[afadeev]

This conversation is nuts,
Humans run on emotion - hence they are capable of running red lights. Computers run on logic - thus UNABLE to run a red light.

Computer runs on whatever they were programmed to execute. Tesla has spent the past 7+ years making semi-fraudulent claims about it's AP and FSD capabilities. The capabilities to which it has not been able to live up. Not even close.

What's worse, it has made no material improvements to its ADAS capabilities in the 5+ years that I've owned my Model 3.
None. Zero. Zilch. My AP still has exactly the same fatal flaws that it exhibited with 33+% regularity when I first got the car: attempted crashing when faced with Y-dividing streets, navigating into a ditch after cresting either one of the two small hills, phantom braking when approaching a local RR underpass.

Consequently, it would be hyper-foolish to expect a different result over the next 5+ years.

Why is there evidence that EV's run red lights - because the software is unreliable and until this is resolved - FSD is going nowhere. Think years and years not months for FSD to be allowed complete freedom on the roads.

Indeed.
Despite dubious proclamations of FSD infallibility propagated by some (aka "my FSD Tesla has never ever ever run a light.").

FSD will not be successful until a majority of cars have, maybe will intercommunication. Same like vaccines. Until a majority are vaccinated it's not entirely safe going out

I would have to disagree here.
Relying on availability of wireless signal, or signal from other cars, is a folly. Reliability aside, one cannot guarantee presence of other cars (or wireless signal) on all roads at all times.
If an ADAS system depends on cell signal strength, there will be massive pile-ups at the limits of signal attenuation, or areas of interference.
Similarly, if the input from other cars is required, ADAS cars will fail on empty stretches of the road.

Not acceptable either way.

YMMV,
a