Coronavirus

[bkp_duke]

The French study is getting not so glowing reviews.

More on Chloroquine/Azithromycin. And On Dr. Raoult.

Yep. That study, like the first one they did, is just not well done.

 

[sparcs]

Spring breakers who came to Gulf Shores test positive for COVID-19

looks like beachgoers are going to pile on the misery all over the country as they return home.

 

[steve3]

What ever happened to @KarenRei

You can find her on twitter
@enn_nafnlaus
Nafnlaus (@enn_nafnlaus) on Twitter

 

[Papafox]

You promote this therapy like it is a vitamin. HCQ is DANGEROUS in a significant number of patients. It's not to be just tossed around like a vitamin.

You are absolutely correct. That is why Dr. Zelenko is NOT prescribing the drugs to young (under 60) people who have no underlying issues and who are free from shortness of breath. As Zelenko put it, "this is not candy, these medicines have side-effects."

Part of the problems with Governor Cuomo preventing the use of the drugs outside of formal clinical tests and outside of the hospital are:
1) Zelenko's procedure includes the use of zinc, which might produce substantially better results than a clinical trial without zinc included
2) People are dying. Dr. Zelenko's point is that treatment needs to begin as soon as possible when a person comes down with the virus to get the viral count down before ARDS sets in. Waiting until someone is hospitalized before offering the treatment is often self-defeating.

 

[sparcs]

Yep. That study, like the first one they did, is just not well done.

That takes us to Dr. Raoul’s other published work. For extended comment on this I refer the reader to this post by Leonid Schneider at For Better Science. To summarize, there are a number of papers published from his lab over the years that have some of the better-known publication sins: duplication of photomicrographs, photoshopped blots. One of these in 2006 was egregious enough that Raoult and several of his co-authors were banned from publishing in any ASM (American Society for Microbiology) journals for a year. He was angry enough about this that he has almost never published in an ASM journal since the incident.

I am a believer in the maxim that you should never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence. When you see these sorts of things in a publication, it can be outright fabrication, or corner-cutting (not permissible either, of course), or sheer disorganization and sloppiness (which also not should be the case). Raoult publishes a lot of papers (hundreds of them), and I suppose one shouldn’t be surprised that there’s some junk in there. I don’t think he rises to the level of some serial fraudster. But neither does this stuff build confidence.

 

[bkp_duke]

That takes us to Dr. Raoul’s other published work. For extended comment on this I refer the reader to this post by Leonid Schneider at For Better Science. To summarize, there are a number of papers published from his lab over the years that have some of the better-known publication sins: duplication of photomicrographs, photoshopped blots. One of these in 2006 was egregious enough that Raoult and several of his co-authors were banned from publishing in any ASM (American Society for Microbiology) journals for a year. He was angry enough about this that he has almost never published in an ASM journal since the incident.

I am a believer in the maxim that you should never ascribe to malice what can be explained by incompetence. When you see these sorts of things in a publication, it can be outright fabrication, or corner-cutting (not permissible either, of course), or sheer disorganization and sloppiness (which also not should be the case). Raoult publishes a lot of papers (hundreds of them), and I suppose one shouldn’t be surprised that there’s some junk in there. I don’t think he rises to the level of some serial fraudster. But neither does this stuff build confidence.

Not exactly an inspiring track record.

Hope he doesn't kill someone with this stuff.

 

[EinSV]

Re HCQ and CQ what should be done is to light a fire under the randomized clinical trials that are in the pipeline.

For example, there is one being done by University of Washington and NY but results aren’t expected until September. .Univ. of Washington studies antimalarial drug’s use to head off COVID-19, with Gates Foundation’s aid

Why don’t they get together with a few other institutions and do 1000 patients in the next two weeks?

These drugs are already being used all over the world to treat covid-19 patients so it seems insane to take such a long time given how many people are at risk in the next 30 days.

 

[ZeApelido]

Well, it started there months before it did here... And there are now new cases growing there that the CCP is blaming on "dirty foreigners"

When this whole thing started, China arrested and deported people who did not toe the party line that Coronavirus was not human-to-human transmissable. The CCP lying to save face is why we are all in this mess to begin with.

China lies about anything they can if saving face is involved. Look at what happens when people try to interview WHO officials and Taiwan is mentioned.

The CCP is not trustworthy. China has been going rapidly dowhill since Xi appointed himself dictator for life.

Tell us how you really feel, Zach.

 

[SageBrush]

Tell us how you really feel, Zach.

I thought it was a pretty good post, although he kept writing 'china' when he should have wrote 'trump.'

 

[Daniel in SD]

Just spitballin' here, but the crew could have played the role of super spreaders, enhancing the R value, by being in serial contact with multiple passengers. I'm getting more concerned about food prep as I read stories of exhalation being a viable/probable pathway for transmission. I'm finding it challenging to avoid breathing on the food I'm preparing. I'm neither a physician nor a scientist, and this is purely my conjecture.

Edit: The CDC report provides support for crew spread of the disease: Public Health Responses to COVID-19 Outbreaks on Cruise Ships...
For example:
On February 5, passengers were quarantined in their cabins; crew continued to work and, therefore, could not be isolated in their cabins (6).

Here is, unfortunately, another cruise ship example: Bloomberg - Are you a robot?.

The R0 on the cruise ship was way higher than 2.5!
My opinions, as an EE (haha), were for the general population, not a cruise ship.

 

[EVNow]

Talking of cruise ships ...

As cruise ship carrying sick and dead passengers moves toward Florida, governor says state can't take them

Why are people still going in cruise ships ? It is an obvious low reward, high risk thing to do now.

 

[Lessmog]

Let me offer a quote from this article about using hydroxychloroquine; and aithromycin together to treat COVID-19:

"This appears to be the best widely available option for treating Covid-19 and not merely easing the suffering from the disease. It would be irresponsible not to pursue this option aggressively.

Dr. Colyer is a practicing physician. He served as governor of Kansas, 2018-19.

Further, here's another article from Forward that addresses the controversy Dr. Vladimir Zalenko has stirred up. In the "use it right now" camp is the FDA and the POTUS, who have given their blessings to physicians prescribing the HCQ and AZ combination for treatment with COVID-19. In the "we need a careful trial before this goes any further" camp are those such as NY Governor Cuomo. I think part of the controversy is political and part is "save lives now" vs. "be careful". In the article linked in this paragraph, Zalenko's patients are now having to drive to other states to get their prescriptions.

You promote this therapy like it is a vitamin. HCQ is DANGEROUS in a significant number of patients. It's not to be just tossed around like a vitamin.

Totally agreed, @bkp_duke -- but is it?

No, people should not self-medicate with fish tank cleaner, and politicos not schooled in the art should not promulgate medical advice on TV and Twitter.

A different matter when trained experts under tight supervision apply scientific method to assay a novel therapy for a novel virus in this case.

As an outsider and amateur I have no input other than that; just don't wave away everything new with cheap derogatives. Please. Peace.



OH. I am typing much too slow. Got distracted. You may disregard select parts

 

[hershey101]

Talking of cruise ships ...

As cruise ship carrying sick and dead passengers moves toward Florida, governor says state can't take them

Why are people still going in cruise ships ? It is an obvious low reward, high risk thing to do now.

Lol this is like asking why are people stupid? The only answer is "Because" it's #murica

 

[MXLRplus]

For those who want a little style in their masks (NOTE: These are not N95 surgical masks):

Hawaiian Print Aloha medical Face masks for Men, Women, and Children

Everybody is trying to make a buck.

 

[Economite]

Talking of cruise ships ...

As cruise ship carrying sick and dead passengers moves toward Florida, governor says state can't take them

Why are people still going in cruise ships ? It is an obvious low reward, high risk thing to do now.

The problem at this point isn't that people are still going on cruises (no new trips have left in more than a week). The problem is that the people who were on cruise ships aren't able to get off because no ports want to deal with the infection risks and each country is at most willing to help its own nationals on the ship.

 

[bhzmark]

just don't wave away everything new with cheap derogatives. Please. Peace.

indeed. That's why situations like this are very revealing of people's ability to make decisions under uncertainty and revealing of character generally.

 

[MXLRplus]

Lol this is like asking why are people stupid? The only answer is "Because" it's #murica

Read the itinerary.

 

[deonb]

Re HCQ and CQ what should be done is to light a fire under the randomized clinical trials that are in the pipeline.

For example, there is one being done by University of Washington and NY but results aren’t expected until September. .Univ. of Washington studies antimalarial drug’s use to head off COVID-19, with Gates Foundation’s aid

Why don’t they get together with a few other institutions and do 1000 patients in the next two weeks?

These drugs are already being used all over the world to treat covid-19 patients so it seems insane to take such a long time given how many people are at risk in the next 30 days.

There are tons on HCQ treatment studies going on right now in many countries.

The study above is not a treatment study, it's a prophylactic study to see if it would prevent people in close contact with COVID-19 patients from contracting the virus in the first place. That takes time unless you specifically try to infect people on purpose.

 

[uselesslogin]

Talking of cruise ships ...

As cruise ship carrying sick and dead passengers moves toward Florida, governor says state can't take them

Why are people still going in cruise ships ? It is an obvious low reward, high risk thing to do now.

It left Buenos Aires on March 7th, Chile wouldn’t let them dock on the 13th when cruise ships were called back. So yeah...

 

[bhzmark]

However, there were 2 patients with mild adverse reactions in the HCQ treatment group.

More specifically