Cybertruck Steer By Wire Safety Concerns and Details

[Daniel in SD]

You’ll have to elaborate if you’re trying to bait anyone.

Door plugs? no bolts? use your words.

Steer by wire software had a nasty bug. Bad sensor input would steer the plane into the ground.

 

[ChiefRollo]

I'm curious as to what details we have on the Cybertruck steer by wire system.

Do you all trust steer by wire?

I don't trust steer by wire systems. Electrical systems can die suddenly, and I don't want my steering dying suddenly while I'm driving. In my 8 years driving Teslas, I have had multiple different electrical system failures, but no physical failures, and that experience generally met my expectations. Most notably on this discussion, I have actually had the power steering system fail while driving my Model S, but I could still steer the vehicle safely to a stop with some extra effort because the physical connection was still there. This power steering failure is not the origin of my concern; my concerns about steer by wire pre-date that incident; it was therefore instead validation of my concerns.

Now, I can be sold on steer by wire, but I would need details on how it has been made safe, through redundancy and/or over engineering. But when it comes to Tesla, their mantra is no unnecessary excess and the best part is no part. I therefore expect they would have been resistant to adding any redundancy or safety margin on the steer by wire system.

Do we have any details on how the Cybertruck steer by wire system works? Have they done any work with it to make it resistant to electrical failures? What do we know about that so far?

How long did it take you to get over your fear of suffocation before you accepted a car with power windows?

 

[Hank42]

The problem with Cybertruck is that Tesla's steer by wire is not proven technology yet, and I wouldn't trust Tesla not to cut corners in the name of efficiency. I'm not sure their focus on passenger safety extends to their electrical system designs. Tesla needs to do more to convince me that their steer by wire systems will be reliable, or at least more reliable than my Tesla power steering that has failed on me in the past.

Say what you will about Tesla's iterative approach to cost reduction, but they tend to go in the opposite direction when launching a new (unproven)technology - they go a little overkill in the engineering aspects to bolster confidence in the beginning. I would probably be a little more comfortable with a 1st gen version of this vs. future generations in which _may_ trade cost for safety.
Some historical examples: Stalks, metal parts replaced by plastic parts, rain sensors replaced by vision, radar replaced by vision.
Of course, there are other risks with 1st gen products.

 

[gtgarner]

I don't think you get it. I don't care about the 99,999 other people. I'm not even suggesting that Tesla steer by wiring isn't safe. Just that I don't currently trust it myself, and would like to be convinced that it is safe. To that end, does anyone have a reference or information on their design? That's what I'm asking. Also, I was just curious if others had similar concerns.

It's not terribly complicated.

Just click here and give it 15 seconds for them to start talking about it.

 

[TjckTock]

I share the OP's concerns about SBW. However, I do not think Tesla has or will cut corners here. At significant cost, they put in redundant FSD computers into their vehicles after-all and a SBW failure is an even more life-threatening event (at least for now since you are required to keep your hands on the wheel for FSD). There is no way the driver can override a SBW failure and such a failure would likely be the end of Cybertruck, ..maybe even Tesla so I am confident that multiple redundancies are in place. Tesla isn't suicidal.

 

[ArchHamster]

Steer by wire software had a nasty bug. Bad sensor input would steer the plane into the ground.

Just in case we need to recycle this meme for the cybertruck.

Love that we are getting steer by wire. I will not be in the first batch of testers, but I'll be very upset if tesla doesn't nail the landing. I've been waiting for steer by wire to take off for over a decade now. Don't duck it up with your lumbar removing, radar neutering, uss ghosting cost cutting fetish Elon.

Don't. Duck. It. Up.

 

[buckets0fun]

View attachment 1008726
Just in case we need to recycle this meme for the cybertruck.

Love that we are getting steer by wire. I will not be in the first batch of testers, but I'll be very upset if tesla doesn't nail the landing. I've been waiting for steer by wire to take off for over a decade now. Don't duck it up with your lumbar removing, radar neutering, uss ghosting cost cutting fetish Elon.

Don't. Duck. It. Up.

Considering it’s one of the main things that needed to happen for the robotaxi, it’ll be fine. I get it, the world is scared of all new things, buuuuut… were some of y’all low vin S owners scared? ~5k vin p85 owner here, can’t say I ever was.

 

[terranx]

I share the OP's concerns about SBW. However, I do not think Tesla has or will cut corners here. At significant cost, they put in redundant FSD computers into their vehicles after-all and a SBW failure is an even more life-threatening event (at least for now since you are required to keep your hands on the wheel for FSD). There is no way the driver can override a SBW failure and such a failure would likely be the end of Cybertruck, ..maybe even Tesla so I am confident that multiple redundancies are in place. Tesla isn't suicidal.

FSD computers haven’t been redundant for a very long time.

 

[zoomer0056]

Tesla's steer by wire is not proven technology yet,

You talk about something you know nothing about.

 

[TessP100D]

when was the last time you flew in an airplane? ridden a train?

This has been discussed at length. many redundancies are in place here and in fact everyone will be using it when the robotaxi comes out.

A airplane is NOT the same as a vehicle. I always crack up with people don’t understand it and try to compare the two.
Remember the stupidTesla yoke wheel.

Same thing

 

[TjckTock]

FSD computers haven’t been redundant for a very long time.

True. But they started that way when Elon believed they would be able to remove the steering wheel "next year." Now that it is clear that true FSD is not coming any time soon, there will always be an attentive driver required so no need for the [additional] redundancy. So making better use of the compute power makes sense. A SBW fault, OTOH, is just as deadly as true FSD with no active driver so it will always require redundancy. Tesla engineers are some of the best - there is no way they are not going to have multiple redundancies and fault tolerance strategies. It will be interesting to see what happens if FSD is ever delivered - they will have to add the computer redundancy back in.

 

[buckets0fun]

True. But they started that way when Elon believed they would be able to remove the steering wheel "next year." Now that it is clear that true FSD is not coming any time soon, there will always be an attentive driver required so no need for the [additional] redundancy. So making better use of the compute power makes sense. A SBW fault, OTOH, is just as deadly as true FSD with no active driver so it will always require redundancy. Tesla engineers are some of the best - there is no way they are not going to have multiple redundancies and fault tolerance strategies. It will be interesting to see what happens if FSD is ever delivered - they will have to add the computer redundancy back in.

Didn’t the smoking tire/ Jason drama episode heavily hash and rehash how redundant the system is?

Wasn’t it said that it’s triple redundant?

The horse is dead on this one, we should kick it

 

[Daniel in SD]

Didn’t the smoking tire/ Jason drama episode heavily hash and rehash how redundant the system is?

Wasn’t it said that it’s triple redundant?

The horse is dead on this one, we should kick it

Steering failure in a customer vehicle this year. What’s the over/under?
Very unlikely the failure will be due to lack of redundancy IMO. It will be a software bug if it happens.
I am curious how the power redundancy works. Are there two 48V batteries? Or maybe the HV battery and 48V can power the steering rack independently?

 

[FLRifleman]

I'm more concerned regarding the lack of consistency and changing steering response. I'd have to live with it for a while to determine if that's an issue.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm more concerned regarding the lack of consistency and changing steering response. I'd have to live with it for a while to determine if that's an issue.

That’s the only reason to do steer by wire in the first place!

 

[FLRifleman]

That’s the only reason to do steer by wire in the first place!

Yes, I understand that. It's fine for tight city driving where that articulation is important, like in a local delivery van, or rock crawling on a trail. The same tech has been used on large military transport vehicles for a while now for the same reason, so it's not new. I'm more concerned about the input feel and response at highway speeds, and when a high stress maneuver is required at speed. Like I said, I'd have to put it through the paces.

 

[m73b54]

Yes, I understand that. It's fine for tight city driving where that articulation is important, like in a local delivery van, or rock crawling on a trail. The same tech has been used on large military transport vehicles for a while now for the same reason, so it's not new. I'm more concerned about the input feel and response at highway speeds, and when a high stress maneuver is required at speed. Like I said, I'd have to put it through the paces.

A variable steering ratio is a stupid idea. It's not safe - at different speeds, the same steering input causes different reactions. Or just imagine taking an exit from the highway and slowing down at the same time - you are on the circle curve, you keep the steering wheel at a certain angle but the car on its own turns wheels inside the turn causing an oversteer. I drove many cars with this steering system and it was always noticeable and not comfortable.

 

[ChiefRollo]

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I think BMW is the only other manufacturer that has made variable ratio steering?
Toyota/Lexus has demoed a steer by wire system with variable ratio but it's been delayed until later this year.

 

[terranx]

Yeah BMW had a variable system back in 2003 - that was a mechanical system though obviously. Not sure how long they offered it.