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Demon 170 taken down by Plaid....
- Thread starter fiksegts
- Start date
Nice passes Brooks! Just shows how far EV performance has come... Makes no sense to sacrifice practicality for speed when you can have both with the Plaid S
The Plaid takes no skill. Your grandmother could get the same passes each time killing the pro driver in the 170. On an unprepped track, the difference in performance is going to be far wider than it already is. Plus the Plaid is going to handle way better on a road course, costs half of the 170 (because of dealer markup), can carry a family of 5, and tons of groceries in the back and front.
drunkenbuda
Member
We living in the future when others are living in the past. EV FTW!
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I know taste is personal, but Ignoring everything else I find the Demon to be kinda ugly. Give me the Tesla any day!
ChooseFreedom
Member
I respect the funny car drivers, the top fuel drivers, etc... There is real skill in riding the line of speed and control when you technically have too much power and have to use skill to control it to reach max speeds.
Tesla's are not that. Neither are any of the modern super cars. The computer controls everything. Nothing wrong with that. It's fun to drop your foot and break 10 second quarters. It's just not a skill.
Even ICE cars with auto trans are cheating if you ask me.
Personally, I prefer curves. There's skill in braking, shifting gears, and cornering, on top of timing and acceleration.
And Tesla's can do that too, but it can be far more competitive than these endless videos of mismatched drag "races".
Autocross is fine I guess, just timed laps. Not very video friendly for the masses.
Battery tech needs to improve a lot before any real interest in EV multi-car road track racing can grow. One battery doesn't last long enough, and they can't be swapped quickly. Plus right now, there aren't enough manufacturers to have any real competition.
Thought experiment:
GT-type races would include who? Tesla, Porsche, Audi, Lucid, Mercedes? That's enough, but the actual performance is way too spread out. Porsche and Audi would be able to beat Tesla in the short runs, but range kills them. The Lucid and Mercs just aren't built for hard cornering. I'd take a M3P or MSP for any race of a longer distance. So that shows how hard it would be to determine the competitive balances found in all other racing.
Has anyone seen the off road EV racing league, Extreme E? They've managed to keep a balance fairly well. But they also add the extra needed skill of off-road racing, which in-and-of-itself is a big equalizer.
But to get any kind of backing, they've had to hook up with conservation groups, which is fine, it's what EV's are for. All kinds of racing has sponsors of all kinds. But this choice is going to greatly limit their growth potential. I mean every other NASCAR team has a sponsorship with an alcohol, chemical co, or drug co (used to have tobacco too).
Oh well, it's fun while it lasts.
Tesla's are not that. Neither are any of the modern super cars. The computer controls everything. Nothing wrong with that. It's fun to drop your foot and break 10 second quarters. It's just not a skill.
Even ICE cars with auto trans are cheating if you ask me.
Personally, I prefer curves. There's skill in braking, shifting gears, and cornering, on top of timing and acceleration.
And Tesla's can do that too, but it can be far more competitive than these endless videos of mismatched drag "races".
Autocross is fine I guess, just timed laps. Not very video friendly for the masses.
Battery tech needs to improve a lot before any real interest in EV multi-car road track racing can grow. One battery doesn't last long enough, and they can't be swapped quickly. Plus right now, there aren't enough manufacturers to have any real competition.
Thought experiment:
GT-type races would include who? Tesla, Porsche, Audi, Lucid, Mercedes? That's enough, but the actual performance is way too spread out. Porsche and Audi would be able to beat Tesla in the short runs, but range kills them. The Lucid and Mercs just aren't built for hard cornering. I'd take a M3P or MSP for any race of a longer distance. So that shows how hard it would be to determine the competitive balances found in all other racing.
Has anyone seen the off road EV racing league, Extreme E? They've managed to keep a balance fairly well. But they also add the extra needed skill of off-road racing, which in-and-of-itself is a big equalizer.
But to get any kind of backing, they've had to hook up with conservation groups, which is fine, it's what EV's are for. All kinds of racing has sponsors of all kinds. But this choice is going to greatly limit their growth potential. I mean every other NASCAR team has a sponsorship with an alcohol, chemical co, or drug co (used to have tobacco too).
Oh well, it's fun while it lasts.
K.I.T.T.23
Member
The 170 is a joke. Can't hit it's published times stock, Can barely hit them modified on a perfect track. Barely edges out the Plaid when modified on a perfect track. Runs 0-60 in 3.5 seconds on the street, spin city. Never seen a street 1/4 mile from one, but I'm guessing mid-high 10's on a good day, if it doesn't crash first. I have a $10k callout for any 170 that wants to have a go on the street, 0 interest so far. Even the Dodge boys know it's a 1-trick pony, in perfect conditions, and barely at that.
Yep. In my view it just shows what a dead end technology ICE is.
If I could have an afternoon with either car you can bet your life it's in the Demon (I had a rental V8 Challenger for a week or two last year and it was incredible fun running that motor loud like an ahole all the time), but here we have the cheaper, far more practical car beating it. When the demon driver had a perfect launch it almost matched the tesla. the rest of the time it was smoked.
K.I.T.T.23
Member
Not quite sure your point here. In order to be a "skilled driver/operator", do you think we need to tune the ports? Do you want to do things like swap jets and balance your carb? Do you think it must be done with a stick shift? Prefer hand cranked starters? What about balancing the fuel mixture actively while driving like a Model T Ford?
The MSP is a much more tuned, precision piece of machinery than can be achieved by a combustion engine. So yeah, it will be more consistent with its times.
The skills required over time will change. Right now, we can't do much with the MSP. In time, as more faster EVs come out, we will be able to re-tool and tinker with them to make them faster.
MikeChicago
Member
This was fun to watch.
I would say that keeping all four wheels on the ground is kind of a fundamental prerequisite for proper motoring. What an inefficient power deliver and that's from already inefficient internal combustion engine. Let's compare notes...
Plaid - Press "go" and beat the pants of your rival
Demon - Remove interior trim, remove rear bench, remove the passenger seat, tune up the engine, pre-heat tires, get your butt handed to you
It's like watching a prop plane race a jet.
Volvo said a few years ago, when they announced that they will no longer develop another gasoline engine, that they have reached the limit of efficiency and power with that technology. Their super turbo is quite good. That's it though. That's the ceiling. Electric drive trains are still evolving with improvements to battery technology and motors. This gap will continue to widen.
I would say that keeping all four wheels on the ground is kind of a fundamental prerequisite for proper motoring. What an inefficient power deliver and that's from already inefficient internal combustion engine. Let's compare notes...
Plaid - Press "go" and beat the pants of your rival
Demon - Remove interior trim, remove rear bench, remove the passenger seat, tune up the engine, pre-heat tires, get your butt handed to you
It's like watching a prop plane race a jet.
Volvo said a few years ago, when they announced that they will no longer develop another gasoline engine, that they have reached the limit of efficiency and power with that technology. Their super turbo is quite good. That's it though. That's the ceiling. Electric drive trains are still evolving with improvements to battery technology and motors. This gap will continue to widen.
ChooseFreedom
Member
Exactly!This was fun to watch.
I would say that keeping all four wheels on the ground is kind of a fundamental prerequisite for proper motoring. What an inefficient power deliver and that's from already inefficient internal combustion engine. Let's compare notes...
Plaid - Press "go" and beat the pants of your rival
Demon - Remove interior trim, remove rear bench, remove the passenger seat, tune up the engine, pre-heat tires, get your butt handed to you
It's like watching a prop plane race a jet.
Volvo said a few years ago, when they announced that they will no longer develop another gasoline engine, that they have reached the limit of efficiency and power with that technology. Their super turbo is quite good. That's it though. That's the ceiling. Electric drive trains are still evolving with improvements to battery technology and motors. This gap will continue to widen.
These aren't races. They're comparing apples to kumquats.
Just because the HP's are similar doesn't mean they belong in the same class.
