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Does Tesla make money on Supercharging?
- Thread starter Teriyaki88
- Start date
I don't know if ANYONE is making much, if any money in the fast charging biz. At least not yet.Supercharging is for sure a minus on Tesla's balance sheet. I think even if all Teslas moved to a pay-per-use model, it still would not be a profit center.
Report: Public Electric-Car Chargers Are Being Crushed by Demand Charges
Graffi
Member
It's not at all easy to figure Tesla's exact incremental cost of supercharging one of their cars. Commercial electricity rates consist of two parts: the energy charge at essentially the wholesale price plus a demand charge that depends on the peak power drawn at any time during the current month. That means a consistently busy supercharger probably costs Tesla much less (per charging session) than a lightly used one.
Wholesale energy prices are much lower than the usual residential rates, because residential users are charged a substantial per-kWh markup in lieu of a demand charge. Even in California, notorious for high electric rates, the wholesale price is typically about 5-6 cents/kWh. It gets bid up with demand but still rarely exceeds 10 cents/kWh though it can occasionally spike much higher. It depends a lot on where you are (as well as what time it is) because of congestion in the long-haul transmission grid. You can see the real-time California wholesale prices here:
California ISO - Prices
Note that the prices are in $/MWh. $50/MWh is $0.05/kWh.
Wholesale energy prices are much lower than the usual residential rates, because residential users are charged a substantial per-kWh markup in lieu of a demand charge. Even in California, notorious for high electric rates, the wholesale price is typically about 5-6 cents/kWh. It gets bid up with demand but still rarely exceeds 10 cents/kWh though it can occasionally spike much higher. It depends a lot on where you are (as well as what time it is) because of congestion in the long-haul transmission grid. You can see the real-time California wholesale prices here:
California ISO - Prices
Note that the prices are in $/MWh. $50/MWh is $0.05/kWh.
I think the way to profitability for fast chargers is to get to high utilization rates. That allows even lower total cost per kWh than residential rates, instead of much higher.
Batteries to buffer demand peaks will also help.
GSP
Stating that as fact without providing supporting information is irresponsible.
Unless you can provide proof, your statement is meaningless.
I go back to the fact that the San Diego region has, since 2012, been a supercharger desert. Our first SC, San Juan Capistrano was full from the day it opened. Qualcomm was full from the day it opened. San Clemente finally helped out the SJC bottleneck, and A Street will help out for those going downtown, but Qualcomm is still overloaded even as A street and San Clemente are online. Just shows that a lot more capacity is needed.
It is more than a bit annoying that Tesla hasn’t been able to figure out San Diego in 6 years. I’ve heard lots of excuses from protracted legal negotiations with landlords to long permit approval times. And now we hear that Tesla is charging downtown landlords, to the tune of about $50K - $100K/yr (my napkin math), which makes site acqusition even harder.
The well positioned Carslbad location will open in 1-2 months, but I suspect it will be full too. And we haven’t gotten hit yet with the tsunami of short range Model 3 cars. Sigh, I just hope the Tesla manager at the A street opening was truthful when he promised 10 locations in San Diego within a year.
It is more than a bit annoying that Tesla hasn’t been able to figure out San Diego in 6 years. I’ve heard lots of excuses from protracted legal negotiations with landlords to long permit approval times. And now we hear that Tesla is charging downtown landlords, to the tune of about $50K - $100K/yr (my napkin math), which makes site acqusition even harder.
The well positioned Carslbad location will open in 1-2 months, but I suspect it will be full too. And we haven’t gotten hit yet with the tsunami of short range Model 3 cars. Sigh, I just hope the Tesla manager at the A street opening was truthful when he promised 10 locations in San Diego within a year.
Who is responsible for tracking how many Tesla’s enter the facility? I imagine it is easier for Tesla to track this.
If a Tesla enters the facility but does not plug in, does Tesla still get their $2.50 cut?
I would guess Tesla would be responsible to provide that info. What if a Tesla owner just goes into the parking structure and doesn't charge?
So…basically a local utility bills Tesla for the electricity used and TSLA passes that on the the car owner, right?
I would imagine that sometimes Tesla might pay/lease the parking spots or not depending on the owner of the property.
Definitely not a profit center for TSLA…
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