Press Conference July 17

[yobigd20]

He may have said different chemistry too but now I can't recall that piece.

 

[gregincal]

Same here. Got the 60 because it made more sense. Could make the math work for paying extra 10k to get an 85, though i tried very hard. I dont need that range very often either. But if it was 3-5k thats a much easier sell. Elon himself said current 85s shouldnt get the 90 and to wait for a 15% delta. That delta exists for everyone currently with less than 85kwh. So why not open it up?

I'm pretty sure that if you weren't willing to pay 10K to get an 85, then the price to upgrade to the 90 (if available for a 60) will make even less sense. A factory option is always much cheaper than a retrofit.

 

[efusco]

Well it is true. Can you please explain why it is such a big deal to some of us peons that don't understand this stuff. LOL Something about uping the amps from 1300 to 1500 ? or was that the new fuse that did that ?

Googled the following:
About Li-ion batteries Nexeon | Silicon anode Li-ion battery technology

Materials other than graphite have been investigated, with silicon offering the highest gravimetric capacity (mAh/g).
The volumetric capacity of silicon (Wh/cc), i.e. the capacity of silicon taking into account volume increases resulting from lithium insertion, is still significantly higher than that associated with carbon anode materials.
The potential contained within silicon holds great promise for the future of Li-ion batteries, if it can be used without compromising the battery cycle life.
When charging a lithium ion battery, lithium is inserted into the silicon, causing a dramatic increase in volume (up to 400%). On discharge, lithium is extracted from the silicon which returns to a smaller size. Repeated expansion and contraction places great strain on the silicon, causing silicon material to fracture or pulverise. This, in turn, leads to the electrical isolation of silicon fragments from nearest neighbours and a loss of conductivity in the anode of the battery. For this reason, charge-discharge cycle life for conventional silicon-based anodes is typically short.
Nexeon’s technology solves the cycle life problem posed by silicon, thus enabling its greater energy density properties to be harnessed for the next generation of Li-ion batteries.

 

[Oil4AsphaultOnly]

so tesla effectively did a base model upgrade from 60kwh to 70kwh for the same price - by controlling buying preference. I guess this means that we should expect to see the S85 phased out at some point as S90's already available for only $3k more (but $2k less than S85D, might mean S90D draws away s85D buyers too). So then 70 & 90 becomes the new de facto capacity options.

 

[capt601]

Well it is true. Can you please explain why it is such a big deal to some of us peons that don't understand this stuff. LOL Something about uping the amps from 1300 to 1500 ? or was that the new fuse that did that ?

That was the new fuse which allows the ludicrous mode. Longer draw from the battery. 0-60. Versus insane mode 0-30 and than less draw.

 

[Newb]

Silicon anodes? Did you listen to the live call, anyone have a transcript? This is huge news if true...

It's probably the silicon-based alloys which were mentioned a couple of years ago, e.g. here:
Green Car Congress: Panasonic Develops New Higher-Capacity 18650 Li-Ion Cells; Application of Silicon-based Alloy in Anode

"The 4.0 Ah cell uses a silicon-based alloy for the negative electrode instead of carbon"

 

[Beckler]

It seems they got their hype strategy reversed between this and the 'ending range anxiety'. This one is actually exciting!

 

[gregincal]

Still a lot of confusion here. I originally read it as Elon saying existing 85 owners could upgrade to 90 for $3k. However, in the design studio it's listed as a $3,000 upgrade after you choose the 85kWh battery car, which supports the contention of many here that $3k is only the upgrade price for new orders. Further confusing things is his suggestion that it doesn't make sense to upgrade the battery every year, which would imply that we can upgrade batteries on existing cars. Perhaps he was speaking from the manufacturing perspective, saying that it doesn't make sense for Tesla to upgrade the battery every year?

He definitely said that existing owners will be able to upgrade, but all we know about price is that 3K is the price to upgrade an 85 config to a 90 when ordering a new car.

- - - Updated - - -

That was the new fuse which allows the ludicrous mode. Longer draw from the battery. 0-60. Versus insane mode 0-30 and than less draw.

Although ordering the ludicrous mode requires the new 90kWh battery as well.

 

[yobigd20]

He definitely said that existing owners will be able to upgrade, but all we know about price is that 3K is the price to upgrade an 85 config to a 90 when ordering a new car.

Yes he definitely talked about existing owners being able to upgrade their packs every year (if you really wanted to) but said it would be more cost effective for you to wait every 3 or 4 years to upgrade your packs when the packs are much larger since they plan on increasing their size about 5%/year

 

[Stoneymonster]

He definitely said that existing owners will be able to upgrade, but all we know about price is that 3K is the price to upgrade an 85 config to a 90 when ordering a new car.

- - - Updated - - -
Although ordering the ludicrous mode requires the new 90kWh battery as well.

Well, the $500 parking sensor feature was a $6k upgrade, so $3000 * (6000/500) = $36k. Very reasonable.

(mostly joking)

 

[dmckinstry]

Well, the $500 parking sensor feature was a $6k upgrade, so $3000 * (6000/500) = $36k. Very reasonable.

(mostly joking)

I suspect that a pack swap would be much easier than sensor installation. What is still unknown is how much will be required for range degradation on old packs.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Current Telsa (Panasonic) cells use manufactured graphite as an anode. Silicon anodes are one of the holy grails of lithium batteries since they theoretically allow many multiples more energy to be stored. I guess Panasonic has developed a hybrid graphite/silicon anode that presumably Tesla has characterized to ensure long life. This is awesome news.

 

[gregincal]

Well, the $500 parking sensor feature was a $6k upgrade, so $3000 * (6000/500) = $36k. Very reasonable.

(mostly joking)

He said that it would only make sense to upgrade when the differential was greater. Well, for many people a 3K upgrade just to get a new pack would make sense, but it makes 0 sense for Tesla to offer one. I definitely expect both a high install fee plus a charge depending on how used the old pack is.

 

[gaswalla]

Well, it's been three years for me, I'm ready to upgrade

 

[Kbra]

I'm pretty sure that if you weren't willing to pay 10K to get an 85, then the price to upgrade to the 90 (if available for a 60) will make even less sense. A factory option is always much cheaper than a retrofit.

True. When you live a mile for an empty supercharger location (on weekdays) and can reach all other supercharges or desired locations only on supercharging, there isnt much need for a 10k upgrade, other than feeling more smug...

 

[ohmman]

I suspect that a pack swap would be much easier than sensor installation. What is still unknown is how much will be required for range degradation on old packs.

While the pack swap would be much easier, the sensor installation doesn't have the ugly issue of trading in a giant piece of hardware. My guess is some kind of prorated cost basis - they check out health, age, and battery size of the existing pack, and the new pack is priced accordingly. It won't be cheap, and almost certainly not under $10k.

 

[hockeythug]

As expected, 85kWh gone from the design studio.

 

[Notacarguy]

I'm pretty sure that if you weren't willing to pay 10K to get an 85, then the price to upgrade to the 90 (if available for a 60) will make even less sense. A factory option is always much cheaper than a retrofit.

Depends on the price.

 

[Fiver]

As expected, 85kWh gone from the design studio.

Both the 85 and 85D are still there as options. The 90 pack is an add-on.

 

[JER]

Meanwhile, on Tesla's Twitter feed...

~ 1hr ago: Model S now fastest accelerating car on the road. (Now deleted.)
1/4 hr ago: Model S now fastest accelerating Model S on the road. (What? Also, deleted.)
Now: Model S now fastest accelerating sedan on the road.

Third time's the charm?