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Just still under warranty, right?Yep, current owner of my old June '15 85D is getting pack replaced at only 64k miles in SoCal climate and gentle driving.
It could be Tesla knew these cars would not last much more that the warranty period, but kicked that can down the road.
How many early owners would have bought knowing the car would be worthless in 8-10 years?
Up until now the BMS_029 and BMS_u018 alerts have affected the 2012-14 Model S. There was some conjecture that the 2015 MS would be immune due to better batteries.
Unfortunately, over at Tesla BMS_u029/BMS_u018 | Facebook are starting to hear about some 2015's being affected as they come off warranty and owners are having to pay for repairs.
VINs above and below 75000 have chimed in.
View attachment 940631
It's almost as if things like batteries fail more as they age.What a coincidence that the 2015 battery warranties are also expiring this year.
You make a good point, thx. In this case it's possibly more than simply batteries failing due to age. If it is solely due to age, then folks will be hesitant to buy a new or used EV if they are faced with $10-20k replacement pack cost after 8 years.It's almost as if things like batteries fail more as they age.
Who could have predicted such madness?
Yes, warranty up Sept 15th.Just still under warranty, right?
Update: @wk057 has reported his first knowledge of vehicle fire potentially attributed to unrepaired BMS_u029 alert reset.
The unexplained conundrum with all these BMS_u029/018 alerts is many folks have opted for the <$1000 solution of resetting the 029 alerts (the 018 alert is not resettable). In all 6-10 such owners I've personally talked to, this reset option has restored range and charging speed to pre alert status, as long as no further software updates are allowed by the owner. And their cars have been running just fine for 6-10 months after reset.
This reset option is a cornerstone of one of the four plaintiffs in the recent lawsuit, which I am not a party to. I opted for 5 figure new out of pocket pack replacement from Tesla.
Yes, I know folks will say if the reset option is so good why doesn't Tesla, 057, or Recell do it? The latter two will tell you it's not safe. Pro reset owners will tell you the other guys have an economic interest in the reset option not succeeding.
TMC was down last night when I got the fiery news from my would-be client. I was actually working on posting here first and was going to link from Twitter, but went back to Twitter when I couldn't.
Let's be 100% clear here in that this that it's NOT the error itself that is the issue. If you have the error present, you're safe.
This is ONLY an issue for people who have had the error "reset" in some way without addressing the root cause (which requires actual non-trivial physical work).
And here once again advocating for this completely unsafe practice AND trying to discredit those of us who know better?
The "economic interest" argument is completely ridiculous and uninformed. If it were in fact safe to offer a reset of these errors, that's effectively a service with nearly 100% profit margin. Instead, we're doing an incredible amount of work to be able to offer complete pack replacements with razor thin margins. You mean to tell me it's in my company's best interest to do all of that when we could be just offering a service that effectively costs us no capital or time instead and could probably charge about the same as we make in profit on a pack replacement? That's probably one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.
Plus, at least on my end, it'd be well in 057's economic interest to be able to just reset these errors. We offer an extended service plan for Tesla Model S/X battery packs. If we could safely do a no-cost reset of these errors, which are by far the most common encountered under our service plan program, then our service plan program would be a literal money printer, since the fixes would cost us nothing. Instead, we have a reserve and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of battery packs being processed so that we can do proper repairs/replacements of failing battery packs, which is quite expensive and a massive undertaking.
I'm sure @Recell and Tesla themselves are in pretty much the same boat. Why expend resources on something like this, face the PR backlash, etc etc if you can just reset the error and carry on safely?
So yeah, I'm not getting the motivation for continuing to push this, and frankly it's getting kind of annoying and absurd to have to keep correcting you on this. I'm really getting tired of having to chase you around this forum spreading this incredibly careless advice. At what point are YOU going to be liable for damages when someone follows that advice? Especially after you've been directly informed by multiple third party experts that it shouldn't be done? IANAL, but that seems incredibly reckless.
At least here on TMC, I'm reasonably certain my credibility in this field speaks for itself and folks here will pretty likely take my advice over yours, so there's that. But I'm unsure what your agenda is at this point aside from using TMC to drive people towards an external competing forum of sorts (your Facebook group that you administer), which I believe is in direct violation of TMC's ToS, by the way. It's one thing to post a link to something that may be of interest to members here, but another to keep driving people to an external forum you administer. (I would know, I was actually banned for doing something like this years ago.)
Bottom line, again, is that if you reset these errors without correcting the underlying physical issue, and then charge above the limit originally imposed, you're pretty much just striking a match every time. You might not get ignition immediately, but you're quite literally playing with fire. You do not want a Model S with this error reset sitting in your garage. You do not want your family in one of these cars that's had this error reset.
And like I said on Twitter, if you've done this "reset" or had it done by the third party or whatever the case may be, I highly suggest seeking a proper repair or replacement. If you've lucked out and managed to drive a bit afterwards without issue, you've also probably increased the repair cost by damaging the battery further. Seriously, park it. Away from anything important, discharge to < 50% (use climate keeper, HI setting, windows open, fan at 9 on not-recirculate), and seek help. I don't care if that's from me. Safety first. Get help from 057. Get help from Tesla. Get help from @Recell ... I don't care, but don't keep using the car. While I knew the odds of a catastrophe were non-zero, it's worse than even I estimated, and now have in-the-wild data to point to on it.
TMC was down last night when I got the fiery news from my would-be client. I was actually working on posting here first and was going to link from Twitter, but went back to Twitter when I couldn't.
Let's be 100% clear here in that this that it's NOT the error itself that is the issue. If you have the error present, you're safe.
This is ONLY an issue for people who have had the error "reset" in some way without addressing the root cause (which requires actual non-trivial physical work).
And here once again advocating for this completely unsafe practice AND trying to discredit those of us who know better?
The "economic interest" argument is completely ridiculous and uninformed. If it were in fact safe to offer a reset of these errors, that's effectively a service with nearly 100% profit margin. Instead, we're doing an incredible amount of work to be able to offer complete pack replacements with razor thin margins. You mean to tell me it's in my company's best interest to do all of that when we could be just offering a service that effectively costs us no capital or time instead and could probably charge about the same as we make in profit on a pack replacement? That's probably one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.
Plus, at least on my end, it'd be well in 057's economic interest to be able to just reset these errors. We offer an extended service plan for Tesla Model S/X battery packs. If we could safely do a no-cost reset of these errors, which are by far the most common encountered under our service plan program, then our service plan program would be a literal money printer, since the fixes would cost us nothing. Instead, we have a reserve and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of battery packs being processed so that we can do proper repairs/replacements of failing battery packs, which is quite expensive and a massive undertaking.
I'm sure @Recell and Tesla themselves are in pretty much the same boat. Why expend resources on something like this, face the PR backlash, etc etc if you can just reset the error and carry on safely?
So yeah, I'm not getting the motivation for continuing to push this, and frankly it's getting kind of annoying and absurd to have to keep correcting you on this. I'm really getting tired of having to chase you around this forum spreading this incredibly careless advice. At what point are YOU going to be liable for damages when someone follows that advice? Especially after you've been directly informed by multiple third party experts that it shouldn't be done? IANAL, but that seems incredibly reckless.
At least here on TMC, I'm reasonably certain my credibility in this field speaks for itself and folks here will pretty likely take my advice over yours, so there's that. But I'm unsure what your agenda is at this point aside from using TMC to drive people towards an external competing forum of sorts (your Facebook group that you administer), which I believe is in direct violation of TMC's ToS, by the way. It's one thing to post a link to something that may be of interest to members here, but another to keep driving people to an external forum you administer. (I would know, I was actually banned for doing something like this years ago.)
Bottom line, again, is that if you reset these errors without correcting the underlying physical issue, and then charge above the limit originally imposed, you're pretty much just striking a match every time. You might not get ignition immediately, but you're quite literally playing with fire. You do not want a Model S with this error reset sitting in your garage. You do not want your family in one of these cars that's had this error reset.
And like I said on Twitter, if you've done this "reset" or had it done by the third party or whatever the case may be, I highly suggest seeking a proper repair or replacement. If you've lucked out and managed to drive a bit afterwards without issue, you've also probably increased the repair cost by damaging the battery further. Seriously, park it. Away from anything important, discharge to < 50% (use climate keeper, HI setting, windows open, fan at 9 on not-recirculate), and seek help. I don't care if that's from me. Safety first. Get help from 057. Get help from Tesla. Get help from @Recell ... I don't care, but don't keep using the car. While I knew the odds of a catastrophe were non-zero, it's worse than even I estimated, and now have in-the-wild data to point to on it.
@wk057 you have, and will continue to be one of the most credible members. Appreciate all you do.TMC was down last night when I got the fiery news from my would-be client. I was actually working on posting here first and was going to link from Twitter, but went back to Twitter when I couldn't.
Let's be 100% clear here in that this that it's NOT the error itself that is the issue. If you have the error present, you're safe.
This is ONLY an issue for people who have had the error "reset" in some way without addressing the root cause (which requires actual non-trivial physical work).
And here once again advocating for this completely unsafe practice AND trying to discredit those of us who know better?
The "economic interest" argument is completely ridiculous and uninformed. If it were in fact safe to offer a reset of these errors, that's effectively a service with nearly 100% profit margin. Instead, we're doing an incredible amount of work to be able to offer complete pack replacements with razor thin margins. You mean to tell me it's in my company's best interest to do all of that when we could be just offering a service that effectively costs us no capital or time instead and could probably charge about the same as we make in profit on a pack replacement? That's probably one of the most illogical things I've ever heard.
Plus, at least on my end, it'd be well in 057's economic interest to be able to just reset these errors. We offer an extended service plan for Tesla Model S/X battery packs. If we could safely do a no-cost reset of these errors, which are by far the most common encountered under our service plan program, then our service plan program would be a literal money printer, since the fixes would cost us nothing. Instead, we have a reserve and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of battery packs being processed so that we can do proper repairs/replacements of failing battery packs, which is quite expensive and a massive undertaking.
I'm sure @Recell and Tesla themselves are in pretty much the same boat. Why expend resources on something like this, face the PR backlash, etc etc if you can just reset the error and carry on safely?
So yeah, I'm not getting the motivation for continuing to push this, and frankly it's getting kind of annoying and absurd to have to keep correcting you on this. I'm really getting tired of having to chase you around this forum spreading this incredibly careless advice. At what point are YOU going to be liable for damages when someone follows that advice? Especially after you've been directly informed by multiple third party experts that it shouldn't be done? IANAL, but that seems incredibly reckless.
At least here on TMC, I'm reasonably certain my credibility in this field speaks for itself and folks here will pretty likely take my advice over yours, so there's that. But I'm unsure what your agenda is at this point aside from using TMC to drive people towards an external competing forum of sorts (your Facebook group that you administer), which I believe is in direct violation of TMC's ToS, by the way. It's one thing to post a link to something that may be of interest to members here, but another to keep driving people to an external forum you administer. (I would know, I was actually banned for doing something like this years ago.)
Bottom line, again, is that if you reset these errors without correcting the underlying physical issue, and then charge above the limit originally imposed, you're pretty much just striking a match every time. You might not get ignition immediately, but you're quite literally playing with fire. You do not want a Model S with this error reset sitting in your garage. You do not want your family in one of these cars that's had this error reset.
And like I said on Twitter, if you've done this "reset" or had it done by the third party or whatever the case may be, I highly suggest seeking a proper repair or replacement. If you've lucked out and managed to drive a bit afterwards without issue, you've also probably increased the repair cost by damaging the battery further. Seriously, park it. Away from anything important, discharge to < 50% (use climate keeper, HI setting, windows open, fan at 9 on not-recirculate), and seek help. I don't care if that's from me. Safety first. Get help from 057. Get help from Tesla. Get help from @Recell ... I don't care, but don't keep using the car. While I knew the odds of a catastrophe were non-zero, it's worse than even I estimated, and now have in-the-wild data to point to on it.
Yep, current owner of my old June '15 85D is getting pack replaced at only 64k miles in SoCal climate and gentle driving.
It could be Tesla knew these cars would not last much more that the warranty period, but kicked that can down the road.
How many early owners would have bought knowing the car would be worthless in 8-10 years?
Could someone explain what are the observed indicators in your car would be prior to seeing these u029 or u018 alerts? Are we talking about a sudden reduced rated range? A sudden large cell voltage imbalance? What would you expect to see? I'm curious because the warranty in my car just ended, but the battery seems fine from everything I can see. My rated range is OK for a car with 8 years and over 150k miles, and my voltage imbalance is about 25mv.
I’m gonna start disagreeing with these posts until you provide evidence of anyone receiving a third party battery replacement for anything reasonably close to $5,000.But you can get it fixed for close to $5k from a few third-party places. .
So the 018 triggered and then it jumped back up before the 057 replacement? Did you have a warranty with 057?For BMS_018 on my end the indication turned out to be severe degradation over the course of a year.
View attachment 940969
No, the jump up IS the replacement.So the 018 triggered and then it jumped back up before the 057 replacement? Did you have a warranty with 057?
I don't see the jump back you speak of...the trend looks like lower highs and lower lows. I think the battery pack replacement is where the jump occurs because the chart seems to show an average and not any specific single data plot.So the 018 triggered and then it jumped back up before the 057 replacement? Did you have a warranty with 057?
Ok, so I am just misreading his chart. Apparently, he took it in for a replacement as soon as the 018 showed, even though it is still drivable but at no more than 50% charge. At least, that is my understanding.No, the jump up IS the replacement.