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PittCaleb
Member
I love that they allow you to restrict it by your 'social media' group or 'co-workers;' I could totally see setting it so a specific set of people could use it while i wasn't for a fee. But not strangers.
If it were available today - absolutely not. When it actually starts in 2-3 years, maybe. If my battery really is good for 300,000 miles and the motors for 1 million, rather than trading in my car when I am ready for a new one I could just put it out on the network and have it make money for me. Even if I don't want to put it on the network, it may have much greater resale value since it can go out and make money for itself. This sounds like a great development for owners. I hope it works as planned.
Tesla prevents Uber/Lyft to use full autonomy features for commercial purposes. So they can’t remove human driver, and only Tesla can. This is written in Tesla contract, and Musk referred to it explicitly yesterday.
In other words, this is an attempt to create monopoly on the market.
Runebane
Member
Except it's not a monopoly as Uber, Lyft and the hundreds of Taxi companies aren't going away just because a few hundred FSD Tesla Taxis are on the road...
They will go away 100% if they are forced to use human drivers to compete with autonomous cars Tesla will be using as part of Tesla Network.
Runebane
Member
And if, many years from now, that becomes true AND no one else has figured out FSD to be able to do the same, then and only then would they have a monopoly.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
how are they doing that?
What contract?
Can you quote his exact words or cite what time code on the video he says them?
The whole discussion is based on the assumption that Tesla Network is real and will materialize soon (1,000,000 robotaxis in 2020, in Musk words).
Now, what I’m pointing out that from autonomy-related revenue standpoint Tesla is no different from any other car manufacturer. They all want to become ‘Mobility as a Service’ providers, and think they can easily replicate Uber/Lyft (or buy/invest). And to make sure this will happen, car manufacturers are trying to restrict Uber/Lyft to use the same tech on their networks to compete with them.
So it will be either monopoly, or olygopoly, unless some regulations are introduced to prevent car manufacturers from doing so.
So you're saying that people would rather pay $2 per mile and have to reserve, rather than $1 per mile and summon from the App to get a car within a very few minutes? (assumes the network is built out).
Runebane
Member
Currently people are willing to take taxis instead of a cheaper uber or lyft. And you don't think in 2020 (using the previous posters timeframe, I thought Musk said end of 2021 for the taxis) people won't take an uber/lyft/taxi instead of an FSD taxi? You think the masses are going to suddenly trust technology that's been barely proven?
Taxis have some standards and are more regulated, so people take them. In some places it's much faster to get a taxi (not all, but some). The idea of not being in a car with some unknown person, and having a car of known quality will appeal to many. Also not having to schedule well in advance, but just use the App and a few minutes later get the ride, means that it's almost as convenient as your own car.
So you're saying that the whole meeting yesterday was total BS? Based on what? Not saying it is or isn't as I am not claiming to be an expert in the field, just clarifying your position.
They say they will be ready next year (HW/SW not regulatory)... Assuming they are way too confident, which to be honest is very likely, multiply that estimate by four (just a random number
) and we're still at "4 to 6 years away."
UltralightBeam
Member
Not sure if this was mentioned already. I think it was just in terms of the car running itself. I took it as if you're using autonomous 'robo taxi' mode, it only works if it's on the 'Tesla Network'. Yeah, you can use your car as a lyft or uber, but you'd have to be in the car driving for sure... Not somehow 'picking' or 'accepting' uber/lyft requests from the comfort of your own home.
Runebane
Member
And nothing you said even hints that even if Musk could muster 1mil cars by the end of 2020 all FSD taxis that he'd have a monopoly on his hands. just because some/many would like that convenience doesn't equate to the majority/all. It would take many years for the Taxi network to take over, and in that time other manufacturers would catch up and do the same, thus nullifying any monopoly Tesla would potentially get.
The only way Tesla would end up with a monopoly is if Musk is 100% on his prediction of 1mil taxi by the end of 2020 and adoption of them exceeds that of Uber when they start by an order of magnitude. Both of which I doubt would happen. Even if both happened, Uber and Lyft at the minimum would hang on for a few years, before Tesla could match the demand of nearly 320million people in the US.
Yes I can: 3:19:35. Check the presentation at this mark.
Q: If I’m Uber, why wouldn’t I just buy all your cars?
A: There is a clause... we put about 3-4 years ago, that you can only use it on a Tesla network.
Vast majority will always buy the cheapest option. No human means huge reduction in costs.
And for me personally, it is actually better to have no one else in a car I’m riding in. There is no value in having someone to drive me. Safety included. I guess maybe in some markets human drivers will probably be faster, so there is that.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I'm again stuck wondering "what contract" though?
I looked around online- I do find several stories from 2016 citing that Tesla had something on their website about not using FSD with other rideshare services.
No "contract" though.
And I sure didn't sign anything like that when I bought FSD.
Given how Elon tosses out ideas it wouldn't shock me if there isn't any actual contract restricting existing owners, but they keep meaning to put one into the MVPA and just haven't actually done it.
(I actually just went and re-read my own MVPA to be sure... there's nothing whatsoever like this in my contract)
I assume it started in October 2016: https://electrek.co/2016/10/19/tesl...-ride-sharing-tesla-network-not-uber-or-lyft/
On both their autopilot information page and their configuration page for new vehicle orders, Tesla has added a line about “using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing…but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year.”
It seems Tesla removed the disclaimer(s). But they are certainly in Musk’s mind.
Keep in mind, Tesla has 100% control over your car (technically speaking). So unless Tesla decides to allow this voluntarily or it will be forced legally - you are limited to Tesla network only.
Keep in mind you will need to have advanced integration with the fleet to make ridesharing work. So unless Tesla provides such possibility, this will not work properly.
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