Tesla Owners in British Columbia

[Paul Carter]

Ok form the BC Gov press release

To ensure the funds available for incentives go further and are available for more British Columbians purchasing lower-cost CEVs, the Province has established a vehicle price cap. Effective immediately, any CEV with a manufacturer suggested retail price above $77,000 will not be eligible for a purchase incentive from the CEV program."

CEV are plug in cars both PHEV and full electric.

And this happens to be titled "the innovative clear energy fund". Otherwise know as the ICE fund by the BC Government

Well I be dammed. A sad day.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

The part I have issue with is they are saying. Clean tech is fine as long as it's cheep like the dirty old way. That's like saying don't use LED bulbs in your house because they cost more then incondesince bulbs

 

[beeeerock]

Crazy. As a percentage of the purchase price, the rebate was lower and lower as you got up into Tesla range. They make more back on the luxury tax etc than they were giving up on the rebate. If this drops the Tesla purchase numbers, they could actually be going *backwards* as a result. Politicians... (replace 'Wollerton' with 'Politician')

 

[Jaff]

As I said before, it is pathetic and disgusting that what should be a "pure of goal" environmental policy, is tainted like this...there are many social policies in Canada designed to redistribute wealth (progressive income tax / claw backs on family assistance & OAS programs / consumption tax / etc.)..there is absolutely no need to pollute the EV rebate program by imposing punitive social limitations...ICE emissions are all equally bad in the eyes of Mother Nature...

So good news and bad news with the HOV lane access and $77k cap. I guess we want to encourage people to buy electric vehicles, but just not wealthy people since all the taxes they pay, plus the extra 3% PST "luxury" tax on the vehicle, means they deserve no rebate. Got it.

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

As I said before, it is pathetic and disgusting that what should be a "pure of goal" environmental policy, is tainted like this...there are many social policies in Canada designed to redistribute wealth (progressive income tax / claw backs on family assistance & OAS programs / consumption tax / etc.)..there is absolutely no need to pollute the EV rebate program by imposing punitive social limitations...ICE emissions are all equally bad in the eyes of Mother Nature...

My favorite was during the election when they said middle class tops out at a household income of $120k a year. So a couple making $60k a year each are rich now?

 

[green1]

My favorite was during the election when they said middle class tops out at a household income of $120k a year. So a couple making $60k a year each are rich now?

Only if they buy a Tesla, if they buy a Volt they're poor and need all the help they can get...

 

[Jaff]

Very true...and add, most folks stretching themselves to acquire the only long range EV on the planet, that also has a long range "refueling" network, are financing these vehicles...I very much doubt that most Tesla owners pay cash on the barrelhead...buying a $150,000 vehicle using financing or leasing only means you have the wherewithal to qualify for said financing...it does not make one rich...

Exactly

Funny thing is how many non rich people buy fully loaded 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. But magically a car that costs the same is some wealth statement

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Without going too far off topic Eco, this is the problem...our Provincial & Federal Governments have no idea what qualifies as "rich"...$150,000 / yr. is just UMC...it does not make you Thurston Howell III...

My favorite was during the election when they said middle class tops out at a household income of $120k a year. So a couple making $60k a year each are rich now?

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...But, Mother nature is not as happy with Volt drivers vs. BEV drivers, right? :wink:

Only if they buy a Tesla, if they buy a Volt they're poor and need all the help they can get...

 

[green1]

...But, Mother nature is not as happy with Volt drivers vs. BEV drivers, right? :wink:

If you ask GM it is a BEV... it just happens to have a backup generator on board, and yes, they do say that with a straight face...

 

[go.mouse]

For those wondering about BC HOV application for the EV decal, there's a PDF form on BC Gov site. Fill up the form and attach ICBC registration, and submit by email, fax or mail.

Called ICBC earlier and the agent was shocked with the news. Apparently they weren't informed about it yet.

 

[f-stop]

For those wondering about BC HOV application for the EV decal, there's a PDF form on BC Gov site. Fill up the form and attach ICBC registration, and submit by email, fax or mail

looks like this will be the decal:

the form and more information here on the BC Gov't site: Electric Vehicles & HOV Lanes

 

[EcoHeliGuy]

Well could have been worst

 

[f-stop]

Ok form the BC Gov press release

[snip]

And this happens to be titled "the innovative clear energy fund". Otherwise know as the ICE fund by the BC Government

Just noticed this (in bold, above). Irony, anyone?

 

[beeeerock]

Just noticed this (in bold, above). Irony, anyone?

Well, it's been a while since I've seen anyone in any government who might qualify as a MENSA candidate... only shows how little they understand about the issue.

 

[beeeerock]

This annoyed me enough to write an email to Todd Stone and Terry Lake, as follows. I'm sure there's more to the economics than I've mentioned, but the basic premise is sound (I think!):

Todd/Terry,
I've just read some disturbing news about the extension to the CEV for BC rebate program. Specifically, that there is going to be a cap at $77,000. The quote from CBC is "Clark is also set to announce an electric vehicle-price cap of $77,000 in an effort to encourage more British Columbians to buy electric vehicles".


I am shocked to see this! How this is going to encourage more of us to buy EV's is completely beyond me. At present, there is really only one manufacturer offering an EV that is practical for the distances we travel in BC. That company is obviously Tesla. I know that Terry drives a Volt, but it's not really the sort of EV we must transition to since it still relies upon an internal combustion engine (ICE) to bridge the distance gaps.


I bought a Tesla. I stretched to buy a Tesla. I stretched a very looong way to buy a Tesla. Had the Tesla not existed, I would not have purchased an EV, because the current offerings simply don't provide the range I required to replace my ICE. The rebate helped me gulp back my hesitation and take the plunge.


In my case, the rebate meant I bought an EV. Had it not been there, I wouldn't have. I would not have settled for something less. Therefore, the rebate as it apparently will be adjusted, would NOT have contributed to either an EV purchase or one less ICE on the road.


I note also that the 'luxury tax' at 10% on an Tesla purchase is guaranteed to kick in. Let's say the Tesla is $100,000. That means $10,000 in PST is collected. Subtract the $5,000 rebate and it's still $5,000 in the government's pocket. Compare that to a Leaf at, say, $35,000. No luxury tax, so 7% PST would equate to $2,450. Let's call it an even $2,500. Deduct the $5,000 rebate and the government is out of pocket by $2,500.

So if the rebate prompts a buyer to purchase a Tesla, the government makes money. If the buyer purchases a Leaf, the government loses money. How do these economics work to the taxpayer's advantage? A single Tesla purchase would offset the rebate cost of TWO Leaf purchases! Is it simply a question of optics (Telsa is for the rich), and the assumption that the average taxpayer can't understand this basic math? Including Teslas would actually help to fund the program!


You guys really need to revisit this, if the CBC has it right. As a taxpayer, it annoys me. As an EVangilist, it pisses me off more than you can know.


Please correct me where I've gone wrong with my understanding.

 

[Canuck]

This annoyed me enough to write an email to Todd Stone and Terry Lake, as follows. I'm sure there's more to the economics than I've mentioned, but the basic premise is sound (I think!):

Todd/Terry,
I've just read some disturbing news about the extension to the CEV for BC rebate program. Specifically, that there is going to be a cap at $77,000. The quote from CBC is "Clark is also set to announce an electric vehicle-price cap of $77,000 in an effort to encourage more British Columbians to buy electric vehicles".


I am shocked to see this! How this is going to encourage more of us to buy EV's is completely beyond me. At present, there is really only one manufacturer offering an EV that is practical for the distances we travel in BC. That company is obviously Tesla. I know that Terry drives a Volt, but it's not really the sort of EV we must transition to since it still relies upon an internal combustion engine (ICE) to bridge the distance gaps.


I bought a Tesla. I stretched to buy a Tesla. I stretched a very looong way to buy a Tesla. Had the Tesla not existed, I would not have purchased an EV, because the current offerings simply don't provide the range I required to replace my ICE. The rebate helped me gulp back my hesitation and take the plunge.


In my case, the rebate meant I bought an EV. Had it not been there, I wouldn't have. I would not have settled for something less. Therefore, the rebate as it apparently will be adjusted, would NOT have contributed to either an EV purchase or one less ICE on the road.


I note also that the 'luxury tax' at 10% on an Tesla purchase is guaranteed to kick in. Let's say the Tesla is $100,000. That means $10,000 in PST is collected. Subtract the $5,000 rebate and it's still $5,000 in the government's pocket. Compare that to a Leaf at, say, $35,000. No luxury tax, so 7% PST would equate to $2,450. Let's call it an even $2,500. Deduct the $5,000 rebate and the government is out of pocket by $2,500.

So if the rebate prompts a buyer to purchase a Tesla, the government makes money. If the buyer purchases a Leaf, the government loses money. How do these economics work to the taxpayer's advantage? A single Tesla purchase would offset the rebate cost of TWO Leaf purchases! Is it simply a question of optics (Telsa is for the rich), and the assumption that the average taxpayer can't understand this basic math? Including Teslas would actually help to fund the program!


You guys really need to revisit this, if the CBC has it right. As a taxpayer, it annoys me. As an EVangilist, it pisses me off more than you can know.


Please correct me where I've gone wrong with my understanding.

Excellent!

 

[Morristhecat]

Well said @beeeerock. You summed it up perfectly. I bet there is a GM official there right beside the podium during the announcement with a big grin.

 

[Jaff]

:biggrin: ...as silly as that sounds, you're absolutely correct!!!

If you ask GM it is a BEV... it just happens to have a backup generator on board, and yes, they do say that with a straight face...

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Very well said Beeeeee!!!

This annoyed me enough to write an email to Todd Stone and Terry Lake, as follows. I'm sure there's more to the economics than I've mentioned, but the basic premise is sound (I think!):

Todd/Terry,
I've just read some disturbing news about the extension to the CEV for BC rebate program. Specifically, that there is going to be a cap at $77,000. The quote from CBC is "Clark is also set to announce an electric vehicle-price cap of $77,000 in an effort to encourage more British Columbians to buy electric vehicles".


I am shocked to see this! How this is going to encourage more of us to buy EV's is completely beyond me. At present, there is really only one manufacturer offering an EV that is practical for the distances we travel in BC. That company is obviously Tesla. I know that Terry drives a Volt, but it's not really the sort of EV we must transition to since it still relies upon an internal combustion engine (ICE) to bridge the distance gaps.


I bought a Tesla. I stretched to buy a Tesla. I stretched a very looong way to buy a Tesla. Had the Tesla not existed, I would not have purchased an EV, because the current offerings simply don't provide the range I required to replace my ICE. The rebate helped me gulp back my hesitation and take the plunge.


In my case, the rebate meant I bought an EV. Had it not been there, I wouldn't have. I would not have settled for something less. Therefore, the rebate as it apparently will be adjusted, would NOT have contributed to either an EV purchase or one less ICE on the road.


I note also that the 'luxury tax' at 10% on an Tesla purchase is guaranteed to kick in. Let's say the Tesla is $100,000. That means $10,000 in PST is collected. Subtract the $5,000 rebate and it's still $5,000 in the government's pocket. Compare that to a Leaf at, say, $35,000. No luxury tax, so 7% PST would equate to $2,450. Let's call it an even $2,500. Deduct the $5,000 rebate and the government is out of pocket by $2,500.

So if the rebate prompts a buyer to purchase a Tesla, the government makes money. If the buyer purchases a Leaf, the government loses money. How do these economics work to the taxpayer's advantage? A single Tesla purchase would offset the rebate cost of TWO Leaf purchases! Is it simply a question of optics (Telsa is for the rich), and the assumption that the average taxpayer can't understand this basic math? Including Teslas would actually help to fund the program!


You guys really need to revisit this, if the CBC has it right. As a taxpayer, it annoys me. As an EVangilist, it pisses me off more than you can know.


Please correct me where I've gone wrong with my understanding.

 

[Morristhecat]

the form and more information here on the BC Gov't site: Electric Vehicles & HOV Lanes

Thanks @f-stop. I sent in the application. There was no where on there where it asked me for how much I paid for the car, hopefully the application won't be rejected if they knew I paid more than $77k. :cursing:

But seriously, the application points to CEforBC's website for a list of approved vehicles. Upon checking that list, it only shows newer vehicles, not my older 2013 as being on the list. That would be pretty sad if a 2013 isn't accepted. Although it used to be on the list back in 2013 when I purchased it and the rebate was available to those who stretched to be able to purchase a rich persons vehicle.

 

[f-stop]

Thanks @f-stop. I sent in the application. There was no where on there where it asked me for how much I paid for the car, hopefully the application won't be rejected if they knew I paid more than $77k. :cursing:

But seriously, the application points to CEforBC's website for a list of approved vehicles. Upon checking that list, it only shows newer vehicles, not my older 2013 as being on the list. That would be pretty sad if a 2013 isn't accepted. Although it used to be on the list back in 2013 when I purchased it and the rebate was available to those who stretched to be able to purchase a rich persons vehicle.

You're welcome. I'm going to send in the application asap too.
The HOV permit page talks about eligible vehicles based on the CEV program and points to the list dated Jan 2016 which includes Tesla. Yet strictly speaking, as of today no Tesla qualifies for the CEV program! When the get around to updating that list, will Tesla be excluded from the HOV permit too?

I assume not, but that's the way the details seem to be worded.

 

[Canuck]

Yes, thanks f-stop. I sent it in for my Tesla and Leaf. When I mentioned this news to my wife last night she said it won't be much good for the Leaf since it can barely make it out of South Surrey without having trouble making it back -- but I got one for it anyway.