Israel/Hamas conflict

[indysurfer]

If that was the thought by Netanyahu and his government, they are in for a rude awakening, once the dust settles. Thomas Friedman penned an Op-Ed in the New York Times this morning, that included the following,
“But what makes this war different for me from any war before is Israel’s internal politics. In the past nine months, a group of Israeli far-right and ultra-Orthodox politicians led by Netanyahu tried to kidnap Israeli democracy in plain sight.

Friedman's rhetoric "kidnap Israeli democracy in plain sight" is overwrought and ridiculous, especially after the atrocities this past week.

It is my understanding that the Israeli Supreme Court gets to basically appoint their successors and they lean heavily on their view of "reasonableness" that has overturned numerous laws that were democratically enacted by majorities.

I think one can see a problem with this arrangement.

Friedman would lose his mind if the current conservative US Supreme Court was allowed to appoint their successors without Senate confirmations. Let alone using their view of "reasonableness" to overturn popular Democrat enacted laws.

 

[navguy12]

Friedman's rhetoric "kidnap Israeli democracy in plain sight" is overwrought and ridiculous, especially after the atrocities this past week.

It is my understanding that the Israeli Supreme Court gets to basically appoint their successors and they lean heavily on their view of "reasonableness" that has overturned numerous laws that were democratically enacted by majorities.

I think one can see a problem with this arrangement.

Friedman would lose his mind if the current conservative US Supreme Court was allowed to appoint their successors without Senate confirmations. Let alone using their view of "reasonableness" to overturn popular Democrat enacted laws.

If the rhetoric is overwrought and ridiculous, I wonder why there has been so much domestic pushback from the electorate regarding this supreme court issue.

 

[FireFighterHil]

Friedman's rhetoric "kidnap Israeli democracy in plain sight" is overwrought and ridiculous, especially after the atrocities this past week.

It is my understanding that the Israeli Supreme Court gets to basically appoint their successors and they lean heavily on their view of "reasonableness" that has overturned numerous laws that were democratically enacted by majorities.

I think one can see a problem with this arrangement.

Friedman would lose his mind if the current conservative US Supreme Court was allowed to appoint their successors without Senate confirmations. Let alone using their view of "reasonableness" to overturn popular Democrat enacted laws.

Exactly! Imagine a supreme court where the Justices were elected for life, got to pick their successors, and could overturn any law enacted by the majority of democratically elected leaders of the people. Well the Israeli's don't have to imagine it, because they live it!

 

[navguy12]

Judges are selected by the Judicial Selection Committee which is composed of nine members: the Minister of Justice (Chair), another cabinet minister, the President of the Supreme Court, two other justices of the Supreme Court, two Members of Knesset, and two representatives of the Israel Bar Association. All three branches of government - the executive, legislative and judiciary - and the legal profession are represented on the Committee. Most of the members of the Committee are professional lawyers: the three Supreme Court Justices and the two representatives of the legal profession. A candidate may be proposed by the Chairman, the President of the Supreme Court or any three members of the Committee. A majority vote of the members of the Committee is required to appoint a candidate.

History & Overview of Israel's Judicial Branch

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

 

[FireFighterHil]

History & Overview of Israel's Judicial Branch

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

They decide who sits on that "committee" insuring that only those who will interpret the law the same way or share the same agenda's ever make it to the bench. They essentially chose who gets to be their successors by using their majority on the committee. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-757109

 

[navguy12]

They decide who sits on that "committee" insuring that only those who will interpret the law the same way or share the same agenda's ever make it to the bench. They essentially chose who gets to be their successors by using their majority on the committee. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-757109

insuring that only those who will interpret the law the same way or share the same agenda's ever make it to the bench.

That is one opinion gleaned from a center-right/conservative news source.

Here is another opinion, from a center-left/liberal news source:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166200532/israel-civil-war-netanyahu-court-control

I’ll close this line of though with my first observation, there is a reason for all the pushback from Israeli civil society regarding the proposed changes. Cheers.

 

[Tam]

NDTV Explains: Was Israel Warned Of Hamas' Attack And What Did Egypt Say?

Israeli state media said Thursday that the country's military did receive intel about a possible Hamas attack - three days before a rocket barrage and roving squads of gunmen killed over a thousand people, including civilians - but opted not to act.

www.ndtv.com

"Israeli state media said Thursday its military did receive intel about a Hamas attack - three days before a rocket barrage and roving squads of gunmen killed over a thousand people - but opted not to take action. Media reports said Israel did not act because Egypt did not specify the magnitude of the attack. Reports also said Egypt's warning was played down as Israel was focused on settlers in the West Bank."
"On Wednesday, however, a United States Senator confirmed intel had been shared.

Republican Michael McCaul of the US House Foreign Affairs Committee, said, "We know Egypt warned Israel three days prior. The question is, 'at what level' (was the warning)."

Does that mean Mossad didn't take the intelligence reports seriously just because the Egyptians did a shoddy job?

 

[SmokyPeat]

My guess is they figured there might be a smallish rocket attack from Hamas that Iron Dome could handle. I very much doubt they anticipated the mass murders, kidnapping, and rape.

 

[madodel]

NDTV Explains: Was Israel Warned Of Hamas' Attack And What Did Egypt Say?

Israeli state media said Thursday that the country's military did receive intel about a possible Hamas attack - three days before a rocket barrage and roving squads of gunmen killed over a thousand people, including civilians - but opted not to act.

www.ndtv.com

"Israeli state media said Thursday its military did receive intel about a Hamas attack - three days before a rocket barrage and roving squads of gunmen killed over a thousand people - but opted not to take action. Media reports said Israel did not act because Egypt did not specify the magnitude of the attack. Reports also said Egypt's warning was played down as Israel was focused on settlers in the West Bank."
"On Wednesday, however, a United States Senator confirmed intel had been shared.

Republican Michael McCaul of the US House Foreign Affairs Committee, said, "We know Egypt warned Israel three days prior. The question is, 'at what level' (was the warning)."

Does that mean Mossad didn't take the intelligence reports seriously just because the Egyptians did a shoddy job?

For some reason reminds me of Condoleezza Rice claiming in 2002 the Bush administration had no warning of 9/11 attacks while holding a PDB titled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States.’

 

[madodel]

Timely Perun video on the history and strategy of the IDF.

 

[Skipdd]

That is one opinion gleaned from a center-right/conservative news source.

Here is another opinion, from a center-left/liberal news source:

https://www.npr.org/2023/03/27/1166200532/israel-civil-war-netanyahu-court-control

I’ll close this line of though with my first observation, there is a reason for all the pushback from Israeli civil society regarding the proposed changes. Cheers.

I agree with @navguy12. Furthermore, the concept of it being democratic is incorrect. If the Knesset controls it, then much like how things go in the US, the power blocks will drive the selection regardless of how the populace may actually feel. This is really the crux of the issue in Israel. Also, the reforms that the far right in Israelis pushing would include “reforms to widen the authority of the Rabbinical Court, allowing them to act as arbitrators in civil matters using religious law, if both parties consent;[8] bills limiting the ability to call for a no-confidence vote and other methods for dissolving a sitting Knesset; bills prohibiting criminal proceedings against sitting Prime Ministers; and bills permitting key public service positions to be positions of trust appointed by politicians rather than professional appointments.[9]”. This is from Wikipedia 2023 Israeli judicial reform - Wikipedia.

The items I copied from Wikipedia are what is driving the upheaval and division within Israeli society. And provided the ripe opportunity for Hamas to act. It is also worth noting that the same group pushing the Judicial reforms is the group pushing expansion of settlements, and is behind the aggressive behavior toward Palestinians.

I would argue that the move by Netanyahu’s party is anything but a move to increase democracy.

 

[X Fan]

As an observer, my read of much of the post atrocity rhetoric is clearly political.

FWIW: Even if the Government was “distracted” over the prior 9 months the facts are that Hamas has been planning this incursion for multiple years and predates the Judiciary controversy.

 

[replicant]

Hamas has been planning this incursion for multiple years

What the best sources on this?

 

[X Fan]

What the best sources on this?

:
It’s out there in varying articles from WAPO, WSJ, Sky

 

[replicant]

I can't find much though. A link would have suffice.

WSJ talk about weeks or months, not years WSJ News Exclusive | Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

Couldn't find anything substantial in WAPO

Sky has one document (found via Telegram) that has a mention of "Oct. 2022" 'Top secret' documents seen by Sky News suggest Hamas attack may have been planned for a year and they specifically say "for a year". They couldn't verify the document (note the date in Gregorian calendar) and the plan was for one specific kibbutz (NB: most military organizations recycles old plan when front lines don't move for years).

 

[madodel]

General Petraeus warns Israel: Destroy Hamas or they will return​

 

[X Fan]

I can't find much though. A link would have suffice.

WSJ talk about weeks or months, not years WSJ News Exclusive | Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks

Couldn't find anything substantial in WAPO

Sky has one document (found via Telegram) that has a mention of "Oct. 2022" 'Top secret' documents seen by Sky News suggest Hamas attack may have been planned for a year and they specifically say "for a year". They couldn't verify the document (note the date in Gregorian calendar) and the plan was for one specific kibbutz (NB: most military organizations recycles old plan when front lines don't move for years).

Sigh.….I conclude you have never been in the military (documents, targets alone takes weeks let alone training, or gliders). If you had, you would realize that an attack of that magnitude doesn’t get done in weeks:

https://news.sky.com/story/hamas-may-have-planned-israel-attack-for-more-than-a-year-documents-shared-with-sky-news-suggest-12984107#:~:text=Hamas%20militants%20may%20have%20planned,was%20dated%20'October%202022'.

Israel attack was planned for 2 years and 'less than five leaders' knew about it: Senior Hamas official - Times of India

According to senior Hamas official Ali Baraka, Iran remains Hamas' primary political and financial supporter, and the organization plans to expand the conflict, forcing Israel to defend itself in both the South and the North. The recent coordinated attack by Iran-backed Palestinian terrorists...

m.timesofindia.com

 

[Unclepaul]

Imagine that Israel government gets frequent warnings that Hamas is about to attack. Believe that their policy is not to knee-jerk response to every report, but to implement an overall strategy to handle these expected attacks when ever they occure.

The ferocity and scope of this attack, that focuses not on the military, but on innocent civilians, children and youth at a dance party would always be hard to prepare for.

Believe the guilt is upon the attackers, much more so than on the defenders.

 

[DayTrippin]

Do as I say, not as I do. Remain in Gaza while I live in a nice hotel in Qatar says the leader of Hamas. I'll watch the carnage from afar in safety.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1713295425766105136

 

[indysurfer]

Believe the guilt is upon the attackers, much more so than on the defenders.

Yep - sad but not surprising to see how much of the international media went from initially downplaying the barbarity of the attacks (show me proof of the dead babies!!) to now hinting that Israel colluded with Hamas to let this happen to help Netanyahu politically.