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No Plan to Take Model S, Model X above 100 kWh

Tesla CEO Elon Musk said the Model 3 won’t be equipped with the larger 100 kWh battery pack.

In response to a question on Twitter, Musk said the Model 3’s wheelbase is too small to accept the larger battery.

Further, Musk said there is no current plan to take the Model S or Model X above 100 kWH, however truck projects could receive larger battery packs to extend range for hauling.

Part of the reaction from the TMC community included disappointment from rural and cold-weather Tesla drivers who say they need extended range.

What do you think about the 100 kWh cap? Check out the thread on the TMC forum.

tyson

Member
Nov 13, 2016
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No plans is Tesla codeword for -- wait 6 months.

Exactly... Besides even if the pack doesn't get bigger the chemistry will change or a combination of the two... Remember Elon wants to use greater than 350kW charging in the v3 supercharging infrastructure....
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
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What do people expect him to say, oh yes we have a 120 kWh pack in R&D right now and lose all sales of his current high end offering? Use some brain cells folks! Of course larger packs are coming as energy density increases. That's a no-brainer. But don't expect the CEO of a company who depends on sales to reveal a future roadmap that could tank those sales.
 

DarkMatter

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
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Olympia, WA
So that's disappointing to hear. Tesla is still too California-centric. We cold weather & more rural owners need the larger battery.
Serious question that sounds snarky: how rural do you have to be to need more than 100kWh? Isn't that a 100 mile round trip even in dreadful conditions? I'm trying to understand the benefit to a bigger battery instead of building out more and faster charging.
 

croman

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Nov 21, 2016
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What do people expect him to say, oh yes we have a 120 kWh pack in R&D right now and lose all sales of his current high end offering? Use some brain cells folks! Of course larger packs are coming as energy density increases. That's a no-brainer. But don't expect the CEO of a company who depends on sales to reveal a future roadmap that could tank those sales.

Tesla should just let people plan in the dark and then get angry later? That doesn't work in the long run. Tesla needs to open up its communication not shut down. This kind of style didn't work for the Communists.
 

croman

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Nov 21, 2016
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Chicago, IL
Serious question that sounds snarky: how rural do you have to be to need more than 100kWh? Isn't that a 100 mile round trip even in dreadful conditions? I'm trying to understand the benefit to a bigger battery instead of building out more and faster charging.

Rural drivers need to travel further to get to places, including charging stations and use more battery doing more tasks. I live in a big city but I have in laws who live in a rural area (that is cold for 6 months out of the year). They cannot get an electric car simply because the infrastructure won't allow them to unless the battery size is 100kwh or greater. They cannot afford an S100D but if a 130 or 150kwh battery comes out, it will push down prices for the 100kwh range and allow them to obtain a larger battery which will allow them to actually use an electric car for their commute or daily tasks. Elon's pick up might be the only option for them to totally eliminate ICE vehicles but a sedan like the S100D would eliminate at least one of their ICE vehicles.

A S90D gives 294 miles but in winter, make that 230. 200 mile round trip cuts it far too close. Yes, they live so far out (and in the mountains) that 294 rated miles isn't enough. The extra 40 miles to the 100D makes it close enough to justify.
 

scaesare

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Mar 14, 2013
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Serious question that sounds snarky: how rural do you have to be to need more than 100kWh? Isn't that a 100 mile round trip even in dreadful conditions? I'm trying to understand the benefit to a bigger battery instead of building out more and faster charging.
Here's my take on it in another thread.
 

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
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Tesla should just let people plan in the dark and then get angry later? That doesn't work in the long run. Tesla needs to open up its communication not shut down. This kind of style didn't work for the Communists.

If you look at 100kWh battery pack there's not much space for additional cells. Once they move to the new 2170 cell format Tesla will probably be able to add another 20kWh.

120kWh battery pack is likely years away and not a priority for Tesla right now.
 
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croman

Active Member
Nov 21, 2016
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If you look at 100D battery pack there's not much space for additional cells. Once they move to the new 2170 cell format Tesla will probably will be able to add another 20kWh.

Such battery pack is likely years away and not a priority for Tesla right now.

And yet everyone expects Tesla to continue to add range and Tesla seems to have a knack for doing the impossible.
 
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calisnow

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Oct 11, 2014
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Serious question that sounds snarky: how rural do you have to be to need more than 100kWh? Isn't that a 100 mile round trip even in dreadful conditions? I'm trying to understand the benefit to a bigger battery instead of building out more and faster charging.

I'd like to be able to drive LA to Mammoth at 80 mph without stopping - as I have ways been able to do in a gas car. That's 300 miles gaining elevation in the winter.

Tesla should just let people plan in the dark and then get angry later? That doesn't work in the long run. Tesla needs to open up its communication not shut down. This kind of style didn't work for the Communists.

LOLSSSSSS
 

calisnow

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Oct 11, 2014
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If you look at 100kWh battery pack there's not much space for additional cells. Once they move to the new 2170 cell format Tesla will probably will be able to add another 20kWh.

120kWh battery pack is likely years away and not a priority for Tesla right now.

I thought such a pack is only about 12 months away.
 

Vitold

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Aug 10, 2015
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I thought such a pack is only about 12 months away.

I'm just talking about highest density pack. Given new cell chemistry, packaging and size I doubt that Tesla will go for high density pack first. I suppose the first battery pack with 2170 cells will be for 60-80kWh SX where margins are lower and arrangement mirroring Model 3 battery pack.
 
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ItsNotAboutTheMoney

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Jul 12, 2012
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No plans is Tesla codeword for -- wait 6 months.

It can be, but if see wk057's posts showing the structure of the Tesla modules, you'll know that they've really crammed the cells in.

That's with the current 18650s which they'll continue to use at least until they've purchased everything they contracted for.

Given the range of a 100D I fully expect that Tesla will now focus on other aspects of the battery. Although people will always want more range, Model 3 is coming, so cost, weight and charging rate now become increasingly important.
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
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If you look at 100kWh battery pack there's not much space for additional cells. Once they move to the new 2170 cell format Tesla will probably be able to add another 20kWh.

120kWh battery pack is likely years away and not a priority for Tesla right now.

I think years away is probably a bit much. It certainly isn't a priority right now, but I doubt Tesla will let anyone take either range or acceleration crowns away from them for long, so they are undoubtedly doing some low intensity work on how to get faster and will produce something when they get some real competition if not before.

2170 cells are also cheaper for Tesla, so if they get to a point where they have a surplus of those, a pack design available, and no contractual commitment for 18650s, it's in their interest to start making 2170 packs.
 

scottm

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Jun 13, 2014
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Would adding a second gear, or taller gear ratio on the one gear we do have, also be a way to improve range for a given battery size?

..when what we're shooting for is long range, above other factors such as "quickness". Even if the car remains a fixed-gear drive, I wonder if we'll have a factory option to order the "long ranger" version or the "high performer" version for a given car configuration... and they select the corresponding drive train at build time?

Or does the electric coil induction motor have a much wider RPM range on its efficiency curve that this topic basically doesn't matter?
 
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Vitold

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Aug 10, 2015
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I think years away is probably a bit much. It certainly isn't a priority right now, but I doubt Tesla will let anyone take either range or acceleration crowns away from them for long, so they are undoubtedly doing some low intensity work on how to get faster and will produce something when they get some real competition if not before.

2170 cells are also cheaper for Tesla, so if they get to a point where they have a surplus of those, a pack design available, and no contractual commitment for 18650s, it's in their interest to start making 2170 packs.

I agree that spare capacity will dictate how soon SX will get the new cells. However I also believe that Model 3 cell packing will be used in SX 2170 packs and therefore will not allow for densities necessary to get the pack over 100kWh (at least until 2019).
 

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