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In the first press briefing for some journalists and youtubers it was apparently said, that the brake pads have been changed. This was the only mentioned change that I saw in the articles that followed. I know this is not the best source, but worth mentioning as it sounds credible.

It is hard to find a correlation between these claimed values and results we see from CANBUS data, Dyno tests and simply comparing US Panasonic cars with Chinese LG competitors. I've also sorted them in order of claimed power. The EPA filed power levels are the lowest, but then there is no...

Once these cars are in the hand of drivers I hope we can encourage people to setup a Teslalogger Docker Container and install Scan My Tesla (Android) to stream 24/7 into Teslalogger. I have written a tutorial how to extract the most essential data into a single file which me and surely others...

You are quoting CANBUS Motor power and I am quoting Tesla Marketing claimed Hub power after all losses.

I doubt that it will go that high. In China they are already claiming a peak of 265kW at the rear with a pack that is "only" down 20kW to the Panasonic. That is apparently based of the old claim of 202kW for the 3D1, which puts it at 267kW, similar to the Chinese claim. We can all repeat...

No, because the maximum power of each motor is at different speeds. The addition of these two motors is made countless times and countless times it is pointless. Also we've seen that even if it was possible, that the battery can not saturate both motors at the same time.

Here is a comprehensive overview of all the specs that were claimed by Tesla marketing Registration docs in the US/EU CANBUS data... If a cell is empty there is simply no data yet, but I will update the list whenever there is new stuff coming in...

LG packs always start low and then rise within the first months. Applying the first range disregards the true capacity of the pack, so your result can not be actual Degradation but a delta of an initially uncalibrated pack and the current state. Also you've bought 580km, so the resembling...

The highest logged capacity of that pack was 554km / 75.9kWh. 580km WLTP usable capacity was around 75.5kWh, so it depends were you apply the baseline.

Tesla has configured all M3LR from 2021 to 2023 (except Highland) with the same consumption constant (137Wh/km) and Degradation threshold 78.9kWh. The car doesn't care if you have a 3, 3C, 5C or 5L (yours) in it.

The Model 3 LR with Panasonic 82kWh had 358 miles EPA. I believe that is were they are setting the degradation treshold. Meaning that the range will not go higher than that even if there is more energy going into the pack.

No it is not. It only shows a change at the rear motor. It also only shows the changes to the rear motor in China (3D6 vs 4D2). This motor hat 259kW as the highest measurement on CAN were the US 3D1 had actual 269kW as highest limit. So you can already deduct a bit for the less difference in the...

The graph shows a power curve of the rear motor, without total values / scaling, without changes of the front motor or total power. I am not sure how you can interpret all unseen data into it. I am not questioning that the car will be accelerating better at all speeds, never have, but it is very...

The sum of combined power can not be above the battery limit (obviously). So, as I mention, part of the increase comes from taking away front power, which I've accounted for in my projections as well. So this chart is actually misleading in several ways, as you also point out. The combination...

Did you guys see this from the China presentation? This is the rear motor with claimed 265kW power, which is supposed to be a 20% power increase of the previous gen (which measured up to 269kW on CAN) Worth noting that a fair bit of that power increase comes from a reduction at the front motor...

Yes. The registration has all those details. The gearing is identical on all Model 3/Y also stated explicitly for the 4D2. The 4D2 is a 4D1 with the 950A Inverter. The 4D1 was already used in the Model Y in Austin/Fremont, but with the 840A Inverter. The 4D1 in direct WLTP testing against the...

No, it is complete marketing BS! I've made a statement about this in German here: https://tff-forum.de/t/model-3-performance-ludicrous-seit-23-04-2024-bestellbar/177126/4059?u=eivissa And a lenghty discussion here:

Yep. I can only guess that they are finally acknowledging and declaring the different power levels of those two battery packs. Though it doesn't fit my expected markets for the LG cars, really.

Are we done now with the 600+ HP and the 2.5s talks? 😉

Yes. That is the only reference to maximum power. Although it is just the addition of the certified motor power levels. 158kW + 219kW = 377kW 158kW + 235kW = 393kW In both cases the battery was the only driver of actual road power, like in your case your 377kW car already had the same motors as...

Absolutely not. Option codes of the engineering test cars revealed the old front motor and the European certification lists the exact same motor and specs as any other Model 3/Y with dual motor.

Within the European type approval of the Model 3 there is a description of the braking system. With the latest revision 36, which includes introduction of the new M3P/M3L, this sentence was added. The added picture is out of the type approval for the braking system of the model 3, back when...

That ship has already sailed I'm afraid. The 4D2 is based on the 4D1 and uses the same rotor. Verified by comparing rotor inertia masses of the two.

There are definitely others here, who are better at extrapolating power curve increases into drag time improvements. I am also on the ball park 2.9s and sub 11s, but again, others do this kind of thing much better than me.

Maybe in the States, but certainly not in Europe. This is Data from a Q4/2020 M3P Refresh 2021 and a Q2/2021 M3P Refresh 2021. These cars got an update in Q1/2021 that significantly improved low SOC performance and another one in Q2 which improved cold weather performance. The first one reduced...

This is the LG 5L 3D6 M3P 2022 -> First kick is... 120A 50kW

This is the sensation that a lot of drivers confirm from feeling how the car is driving. Though the Model 3/Y formula of constant current is valid for all versions. Meaning a Long Range without boost will always limit to 980A, with Boost go to 1255A and a Performance will use 1350A. So with...

When that was a thing I was still messing with BMW and Merc V8 engines and I haven't measured on any Tesla before 2019, so I really don't know. I just quoted the manual. If you look at that projected torque curve, you also see that all motors are limited to the same combined torque really...

I've done a rough projection of 30% torque increase, if Tesla were to use Ludicrous mode as in the MS/MX in the past:

Yes, exactly that. Even across 3D1, 3D6, 4D1 you can see power increase at the same level and peak torque be identical until around 70kph. Only at low soc you see that this low speed behaviour is dropping. So there is an artificial limit, that Tesla can raise.

That's true, but I know a lot of people here care about those little details, so it should be mentioned. Also, this new motor might be the new front and year contender for the MS/MX Refresh in the close future. In that setup the 4D2 might actually be able to climb all the way to 318kW.

You can narrow it down with the outer dimensions from a tire size chart like this one and the gearing info: 3D1C rear = 9.04:1 3D8A front = 7.56:1 ...but it looks like your results are already pretty good.

The MS/MX LR Refresh is one of the very few cars I haven't logged yet. Since that drivetrain is motor power limited (very rare) the SOC shouldn't matter too much. Although variable current required, like sport mode in the plaid. Both 3D1 rear and 3D8 front are stated at 325V operating voltage...

One amendment, since I have new data: My tweet from February was actually correct. The new 4D2 motors operating voltage is 335V indeed, so peak power is 318kW, not 304kW as suggested by me later, based on 320V. This is the first time a performance motor uses the same operating voltage as the...

These unicorns don't exist in the US as you guys never got the transition to hairpin motors in the Model 3. The 3D6/3D7 were Shanghai/Grünheide only. Now with the 2024 Highland Ludicrous you will get the first hairpin motor in form of the 4D2. In the US I'd be looking at M3P with AMD Ryzen MCU...

Panasonic 82kWh + 3D6 Hairpin Motor + AMD Ryzen + Made in China Quality. MIC + 82kWh + 3D6 was available in Q3-Q4/2021 as well, but only some cars others had the 3D1. AMD Ryzen only came in 2022. This is really the combination of all the interesting stuff, apart from the fact that chinese made...

Same here. My Unicorn Q1/2022 is just great with all the good stuff that you would want from the whole built time. I will be testing and measuring the new car in all it's aspects and maybe it changes my mind, but right now, with the current data available, I am happily continuing to improve my...

Ive listed the expected US differences here / US battery pack was already confirmed as BT42 from the option codes:

Yes, pretty much. That's why it is possible that an "insane mode" could release more torque at low speeds until the actual motor limits are hit. This is the more confusing chart behind my prediction, which also shows how I expect the front and rear motors to behave on the new car and how I know...

The difference keeps being stated wrong I am afraid. The old motors (3D1/3D6) were limited to 269kW (320V x 840A). The new motor (4D2) is limited to 304kW (320V x 950A). The difference between the two motors is only 35kW / 47hp! ...and the limit is still the battery, even if you put a 1000kW...

European Long Range Highland is still certified at 366kW maximum combined power. This is the certified power level with active acceleration boost, so Tesla has prepared the paperwork for activation of acceleration boost. Also, when the current LG 5L, was introduced in Q4/2021 the acceleration...

The question is, were do you want to start? The birds and the bees / soc=>voltage / P=U*I / Cell temperature -> Electrical resistante -> Voltage under load... The chart is only hypothetical if Tesla's claim about 30% increase in torque with Insane Mode still holds true from the Model S/X era...

Well, fingers crossed you are right. I've been on the pessimistic side in pretty much all my projections. Would love to be proven wrong and see a final product that blows away the competition and its predecessor!

1340A I beleive, but only on a colder pack with lower SOC when then BMS tries to compensate the lower voltage. If the pack was very hot and full the absolute max was around 1300A. Close, but 840A is the official limit, according to the certification. This is all ways too optimistic in my view...

The new 4D2's maximum power is at 8000rpm according to that Korean registration docs. I use 0.014 to convert RPM into Speed. When you compare this with the SMT peaks of different motors the results are pretty close. You need to take into account that peak power speed shifts with battery power...

Surely there is room for efficiency, not only with 48V in the LV System, but also in the HV System. I just dont think this will be a such meaningful change that we see a difference in power to the road. When we compare the Battery Power (calculated) sensor and the combined Inverter Power...

Just above 200kW is the max I've seen, but whenever the rear loses traction there is the chance that excess battery power is shifted to the front and then the 211kW can be maxed out. Combined power with good traction at the rear makes it basically impossible to get to the 211kW at the front...

630A is the limit, but you won't be able to read that value from CAN. You can only see F Power approaching 211kW while knowing the motor operates at 335V.

Absolutely. For that it would need a different front motor and higher battery limits though. Yeah, probably, but here in Germany on Winter tires and moist roads I am getting wheel spin at 100mph on the Autobahn :-(