Oh wow, you just refreshed my memory of a year or two ago, when they demanded proof I had paid my estimated payments each quarter. The ones I paid ON THEIR WEBSITE. They really are either completely inept, or willfully trying to avoid paying refunds. In either case it's unacceptable.
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Again, Colorado trying to avoid paying EV credit. This demand is beyond reasonable.
- Thread starter MileHighMotoring
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- Mountain & Southwest USA
Oh wow, you just refreshed my memory of a year or two ago, when they demanded proof I had paid my estimated payments each quarter. The ones I paid ON THEIR WEBSITE. They really are either completely inept, or willfully trying to avoid paying refunds. In either case it's unacceptable.
I filed my CO taxes electronically on 2/20 with PDF attachments of all required documents for my Leaf. I heard nothing until a few weeks ago when I got a letter asking for all of the documentation for my Leaf. I tried to upload to their website, but it wants a PIN number. They'll email the PIN to the address on file (no problem there), except I never get it. Not in spam, nowhere. I haven't really taken the time to deal with that one. I promptly faxed the forms with all the required info written prominently on each page. I have yet to hear back.
Last year I physically mailed my return including Tesla paperwork for the used-but-not-registered-in-CO rebate and it took until August to get my check. After I got the "we need more info" letter, I uploaded the exact same documents I mailed in. After the status hadn't changed in 4 months, I faxed the same exact documents. A few weeks after that, I got the check. A month later I received a letter saying the documentation was sufficient and I should receive my check within 2 to 4 weeks.
Last year I physically mailed my return including Tesla paperwork for the used-but-not-registered-in-CO rebate and it took until August to get my check. After I got the "we need more info" letter, I uploaded the exact same documents I mailed in. After the status hadn't changed in 4 months, I faxed the same exact documents. A few weeks after that, I got the check. A month later I received a letter saying the documentation was sufficient and I should receive my check within 2 to 4 weeks.
2krazykats
Member
I just got my notice today to provide the MVPA and registration paper work which I mailed in to them already but *sigh* i guess it got lost. I'm going to fax and mail just for good measure.
I guess they're making us work for this money.
I guess they're making us work for this money.
On the other side of this, I filed my return with CO about 4 weeks ago and it got deposited today without a fuss. After reading the stories in this thread I had resigned myself to waiting at least a few months. Maybe new vs. used plays a role in how long they mull it over? Or maybe I just got lucky.
2krazykats
Member
Mine is new but I used turbo tax and then sent in the supporting documents in the mail with the CO form printed from turbo tax.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
I've had my issues with the DOR over the years, including a dispute over the amount of the tax credit for my LEAF some years ago (I thought that their interpretation of the law, which I read, was incorrect). But the tax credit law and policy has been getting better and clearer IMO. And the helpful Income 67 document, which every Colorado EV buyer should read, explains quite clearly that a Carfax type report needs to be submitted as proof that the car has never been registered in Colorado.
Why do they need the proof, can't they just research it themselves? Well, no. It is up to the taxpayer to document eligibility for the tax credit, and not the responsibility of the DOR to try to determine it. Considering how generous the tax credit is, especially when applied to used cars (like mine) — the only state that does that so far as I know — I don't have a problem with the requirement.
dgpcolorado
high altitude member
Yes, they are pretty clueless. In my case the DOR botched the handling of my Use Tax payment (payment of sales tax for my internet purchases) two years in a row. One year they refunded the money to me because I had already paid my income tax and they thought the payment was for that. (I figured it was so rare that anybody actually paid Use Tax that they didn't know how to handle it!) Each year I just replied to the letter explaining what happened and it got cleared up.
But this year I found that the Use Tax had been added as a line on the income tax form, no more separate filing and payment. That makes things much more simple and is a big improvement over the old system. So, for me, things seem to be getting better at the DOR.
By that logic, one could submit an Innovative tax credit twice a year knowing that it'll never be checked. Not to mention that they're requesting a printed form from any number of the 500 different Auto History Check websites, so it can easily be faked or edited.
They are doing nothing but inviting fraud. If they aren't checking vehicle registrations on these credits, there is a 100% chance that people will scam them out of the $6k. Apparently they aren't checking anything so it's not as if they'll even know at some point in the future. I doubt they're even checking current vehicle registrations to prove you even own the car.
It's pretty absurd. Let's say they're giving out $100M / year in these credits. Isn't it worth hiring a 25 year old for $10k / tax season to check this stuff? It would take, at most, a few minutes per car. At best, seconds per car.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I don't see how this request for documentation is being handled any different than any other tax credit or deduction.
I presume a fraction will be audited in one way or another; again, exactly the same as other credits or deductions. If they find a high percentage of fraud they will audit more. In the case of EVs I imagine it is pretty easy to match the total number of tax credit requests to the number of new EV registrations in the state; or if they wanted to, to match the specific submitted VIN to a database of registered EVs in the state.
I'm not so sure that they mind fraud, so long as they catch it eventually.
Hint to fraudsters: avoid the tax authorities. They are nasty and expensive.
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Because even without being audited, other items that you submit with your own version of the numbers are checked, and revision letters are sent to you for payment. They use the self-preparation method because it's quick, but they do verify the numbers against the federal tax records, employer tax records, and 1099's, etc. They aren't checking them in March of the year you submit your taxes, but they are checking them.
It seems in this case, they aren't checking anything, and I don't think they ever will. I don't think in 2020 they're going to start pulling vehicle history reports and checking VINs. It would be incredibly labor-intensive at some point after today to verify that the vehicle was owned at this exact moment in time by the Colorado taxpayer. Imagine you own an EV for only 31 days in 2015 and submitted the paperwork with your taxes. Five years later, they start digging around and can't find it. Maybe you had a typo in the VIN, maybe they did in their research. Maybe the DMV did. It happens all the time. (I noticed a typo in my registration just last month, by lucky chance. I have never checked that before). Try to get THAT sorted out 5 years from now when you don't have the old title, registration or license plate anymore.
But today - they can spend 90 seconds and A) Verify that you own the vehicle and it's registered in CO in your name, and B) that it hasn't been registered in CO before now. Five years from now that record will be littered with perhaps dozens more line items to sift through. It's silly not to do it now. It implies to me that they'll never do it.
I'm a fanatical over-tax-payer. I don't even claim little things I'm entitled to (according to TurboTax) for fear or encouraging the wrath of an audit or something like that. I would rather pay $20 more per year than have them make me prove I donated a jacket to goodwill 6.5 years back.
It seems in this case, they aren't checking anything, and I don't think they ever will. I don't think in 2020 they're going to start pulling vehicle history reports and checking VINs. It would be incredibly labor-intensive at some point after today to verify that the vehicle was owned at this exact moment in time by the Colorado taxpayer. Imagine you own an EV for only 31 days in 2015 and submitted the paperwork with your taxes. Five years later, they start digging around and can't find it. Maybe you had a typo in the VIN, maybe they did in their research. Maybe the DMV did. It happens all the time. (I noticed a typo in my registration just last month, by lucky chance. I have never checked that before). Try to get THAT sorted out 5 years from now when you don't have the old title, registration or license plate anymore.
But today - they can spend 90 seconds and A) Verify that you own the vehicle and it's registered in CO in your name, and B) that it hasn't been registered in CO before now. Five years from now that record will be littered with perhaps dozens more line items to sift through. It's silly not to do it now. It implies to me that they'll never do it.
I'm a fanatical over-tax-payer. I don't even claim little things I'm entitled to (according to TurboTax) for fear or encouraging the wrath of an audit or something like that. I would rather pay $20 more per year than have them make me prove I donated a jacket to goodwill 6.5 years back.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Sorry, I thought that was funny
Documentation is something of a mind-set. Since I run a small business keeping receipts and an accurate log is in my blood and I've gotten efficient at it so I don't mind the extra seconds involved for each transaction. Horray for Google Docs!
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SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
If you would like a computer to do the clerking for you, check out Evernote Premium combined with its 'scannable' smartphone app.
It is magic. And the scans are searchable.
Alternatively, if you use iOS and plan to continue check out iXpenseit for logging and receipt photo taking.
If you care about keeping a running log there are choices. I'm happy to just keep the receipt in my wallet until I sit down in front any computer to use my Google Doc, but if you are an avid smartphone user it is trivial to make a DIY applet called a 'form' that sends the transaction details to your Google Doc spreadsheet.
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The IRS can only go back 3 years, unless they find rampant fraud, in which case they can go back 7 years. Is Colorado different?
I have heard of these things before, but I feel like if I'm saving anything important, I need to keep originals. So what's the point of the digital copy? They really accept digital copies as absolute proof of something down the road?
In my imaginary scenario they are accusing me of extensive jacket donation fraud.
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