CCS Charging truth?

[Candleflame]

I'm not sure why so many companies are working on ultra quick charging as unless you can resolve the tapering issue 125Km Versus 150Kw versus 350Kw will not make a whole lot of difference in the total time to charge from flat to full and only 10 minutes ore so to 80%. In addition the infrstructure required to recharge a line of 100Kwh battery electric vehicles will be significant and very expensive.
Having travelled with 125w and at times 55Kw charging the difference is not as great as people expect.
Sub 15 minute recharging is really only achived with battery swaping as demoed by Tesla.

Actually thats not true because the tapering issue has already been solved by hyundai with their ioniq which can DC fast charge 10-90% in 20min. We discussed this before here and apparently rumor has it that hyundai uses a single large battery which allows for extremely quick charging but is not as space effective as teslas laptop batteries....

 

[evster]

Actually thats not true because the tapering issue has already been solved by hyundai with their ioniq which can DC fast charge 10-90% in 20min. We discussed this before here and apparently rumor has it that hyundai uses a single large battery which allows for extremely quick charging but is not as space effective as teslas laptop batteries....

Sorry, but that is just plain wrong. They have exactly the same challenges with tapering and protecting the batteries. The ionic battery is much smaller so of course it will charge up to a high percentage in 20 minutes.

"The IONIQ Electric on the stage was equipped with SAE J1772 Combo inlet (also called CCS Combo) with Hyundai claiming100 kW charging capability (20 minutes recharge up to 80% of 28 kWh battery)"

Hyundai Confirms SAE Combo 100 kW Fast Charging For IONIQ Electric

 

[perkz]

with Hyundai claiming 100 kW charging capability

Not that it can charge at 100kW. It gets to like 70:

 

[EcoCloudIT]

@evster thanks, your graph/figers is what I was looking for....alll armed to take on the wife now Model X order here we come....

-ECIT

 

[renim]

Here is the real tapering-curve for Tesla 100kW-pack


View attachment 278613

very good, and this behavior is due to cell and pack level attributes. All EVs display this behavior to some extent, there is a real safety issue about fast charging at near full levels. It can cause plating on the negative electrode, which would lead to short circuit and dooooom. So the charge rate is reduced for fuller batteries. Improved cells can improve charge rate, 2 generations of the prior 24kWh Nissan LEAF had quite different amount of tapering, the later ones required less tapering than the earlier ones.

CCS for OZ is a bit a muddle, does anyone sell an CCS car in Australia with the correct plug? from memory BMW sold US spec CCS in OZ, but that the wrong plug. There are no GM Bolts here.

I think Australia had a foot in both CCS camps, which kinda sucks for CCS, but the better CCS seems to getting the upper hand over the lesser CCS.

Chademo works, Supercharger works, Supercharger via Chademo works.

the market choice for Australian is either Tesla or Mitsubishi,
the others meh.

 

[Evoforce]

Hyundai also does not have an adequate traction battery cooling system. They have a good first owner warranty, but all owners after the first owner, have no warranty.

 

[baillies]

@evster thanks, your graph/figers is what I was looking for....alll armed to take on the wife now Model X order here we come....

-ECIT

[tldr beware of marketing claims!]

A few things,

The article mentions traveling a short distance to get a coffee and Tesla has not discharged enough to warrant supercharging, this is a particular use case maybe you don’t need (I won’t). Bjorn also mentions that on his X90 he rides the 10-40% charging optimum but in non Tesla cars he needs to keep in the 60-80% range, he gets frustratrated if he has to go below 50% and watch the rate slowly climb. The graph in the article demonstrates this but the 100pack demonstrates it is better 15-70% and given it is also larger than the others it yields more range.

Interesting the real life graph in the article shows i3, Leaf starting below 40kW and maxing to around 45kW (Bjorn has the same results), this could mean the real graph for the Jag will start around 75kW and max to 95kW? Until we see actual independent tests I would be weary of any marketing showing a straight line!!!

It would be easy with a 90 to precharge to 90+% just before leaving and not charge when getting the coffee. I don’t yet know if the Jag will have active cooling but in Aus, for a Mel to Syd trip in summer, this is probably a major advantage to Tesla.

 

[Shock-On-T]

@evster thanks, your graph/figers is what I was looking for....alll armed to take on the wife now Model X order here we come....

-ECIT

Even more to the point:
The Tesla’s already charge plenty fast enough, and you hardly ever need to charge outside your home anyway.

 

[EcoCloudIT]

Agreed, I hardly charged outside of my homes, however the Model X (would be our family car, rather than my Model S) will be expected to do trips to Falls Creek etc.

So plenty of not at home charging and kids in sits waiting for the car to charge on the way to destinations...

However, at least long trips are possible in a Tesla right now...the I-Pace would essentially be restricted as an around the town SUV at the least for quite some time to come.

-ECIT