Do Truckee, CA Superchargers Get Much Use?

[tmoz]

Recently I traveled to South Lake Tahoe from So-Cal (450mi) with our P85D (245 mile @ 100%) and the slope within the US-395N along with the cold temperature did not go well with the estimated range. The worst consumption was in a mid 600 w/mile for 50 miles straight, bringing down almost 100 miles of estimate range. Won't do that again. The range anxiety took the fun out of travelling.

Were you able to compare what you got to what evtripplanner.com estimated? I took hwy 89 off of 395 to give Monitor Pass a try in the summer (~8300 ft). Trip planner warned of the kWh needed to get to the top, and I do agree it is scary when you see your projected range drop. I imagine that in the winter, these climbs are even more demanding. Once atop the high point, our range recovered nicely from the regenerative braking, and we could relax. Now that we've done this stretch, I wouldn't be as nervous the next time.

 

[bomquito]

I didn't compare to evtripplanner.com I simply just followed the Tesla built in direction. I started at 80% or roughly 197 miles from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe (SLT) after supercharging and got into SLT with only 8 miles left. On the map, it's supposed to be a 140 mile drive.

I was literally sh**ting on my pants the last 20 miles of the trip

 

[PLUS EV]

Recently I traveled to South Lake Tahoe from So-Cal (450mi) with our P85D (245 mile @ 100%) and the slope within the US-395N along with the cold temperature did not go well with the estimated range. The worst consumption was in a mid 600 w/mile for 50 miles straight, bringing down almost 100 miles of estimate range. Won't do that again. The range anxiety took the fun out of travelling.

That's actually more than 100 Rated Miles of range. There shouldn't be any range anxiety if you just stop at every supercharger. US 395 has full coverage.

The Nav does take elevation changes into account, but does not take weather into account. So if it underperformed, it is because it was colder than usual, or you had a headwind, or you were speeding, or possibly all of the above!

 

[PLUS EV]

I didn't compare to evtripplanner.com I simply just followed the Tesla built in direction. I started at 80% or roughly 197 miles from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe (SLT) after supercharging and got into SLT with only 8 miles left. On the map, it's supposed to be a 140 mile drive.

I was literally sh**ting on my pants the last 20 miles of the trip

Literally? Hope you don't have the white interior!

 

[PLUS EV]

BTW, you were actually going downhill from Mammoth to SLT so it wasn't the elevation change that hurt you. In fact without the drop in elevation, you wouldn't have made it (or at the very least you would have had to slow down and/or arrive with negative rated miles).

The mistake was only charging to 80% and/or not topping off at Topaz Lake. In cold weather, you want at least 50% more rated miles than actual miles. So if the drive was 140 miles, you would want 210 Rated Miles. Of course these drives can be made with <50% buffer, but you need to at least think about some hypermiling techniques if you attempt them. Mostly just not driving fast and not blasting the heat the whole way. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing zero precautions were taken and you ended up cutting it close. This would definitely be considered driver error if you ended up running out of fuel.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Yes, I drove once for 24 hours straight, but I was 22 what did I know.

Been there. Done that. Now I have trouble getting 230 mi to Seattle without THREE or FOUR stops. Maybe I should cut back on the coffee.

 

[ReddyLeaf]

Isn’t Truckee like halfway between Tesla’s Fremont and Gigafactory? If so, I would expect much more traffic than other rural stations.

 

[Merrill]

Isn’t Truckee like halfway between Tesla’s Fremont and Gigafactory? If so, I would expect much more traffic than other rural stations.

On year we were charging at Truckee and a Tesla employee was charging on his way to the gigafactory.

 

[tmoz]

I didn't compare to evtripplanner.com I simply just followed the Tesla built in direction. I started at 80% or roughly 197 miles from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe (SLT) after supercharging and got into SLT with only 8 miles left. On the map, it's supposed to be a 140 mile drive.

I was literally sh**ting on my pants the last 20 miles of the trip

If you enter outside temperature, etc. in EVtripplanner, you get a better idea of what to expect. You can play with wind, load, speed, temp, etc to get a feel for what is in store for you. I like to do that for unfamiliar routes. Now I'll do it if I'm driving in cold weather to see how close I'm going to cut it. Good thing your battery was in tip top shape.

 

[gnuarm]

I didn't compare to evtripplanner.com I simply just followed the Tesla built in direction. I started at 80% or roughly 197 miles from Mammoth to South Lake Tahoe (SLT) after supercharging and got into SLT with only 8 miles left. On the map, it's supposed to be a 140 mile drive.

I was literally sh**ting on my pants the last 20 miles of the trip

Yeah, I feel your pain. I reached a charger with only 6 miles today, but it said it would be 6 miles for the last 20 miles, not ranging up or down and no huge hills like you were dealing with. The cold really can suck range from the battery.

I don't know what your trip was exactly, but abetterrouteplanner indicates a model 3 can get to Truckee from downtown San Francisco in 20 degree weather after charging at Rocklin for 17 minutes and then get up back up to 91% by charging for 36 minutes in Truckee. These numbers are for 20% charge on arriving at Truckee. 3:21 driving, 0:54 charging. You can get to Truckee with more charge by charging longer at Rocklin with a shorter charge in Truckee, but longer total time charging. A 33% reserve at each charger gives an hour total charging time. Not a big difference.

The Superchargers really do make charging on trips pretty easy even if you have to do several charges while you would only stop for gas once or not at all.

 

[gnuarm]

Isn’t Truckee like halfway between Tesla’s Fremont and Gigafactory? If so, I would expect much more traffic than other rural stations.

Maybe that's why they have two stations in Truckee and planning a third!

 

[cpa]

Maybe that's why they have two stations in Truckee and planning a third!

Interstate 80 is the fastest way over the Sierra Nevada from northern California. There are a few alternate routes, but they are much slower and are not as direct.

I think the reason is because Truckee is just about the sweet spot for traveling on Interstate 80. Far enough away from Sacramento and points west to be able to bypass Rocklin or Roseville, and far enough away from Lovelock or Winnemucca heading east.

There are not many locations on Interstate 80 east of Rocklin. Colfax is too close, and Verdi at the state line offers a casino and gas stations.

The Gigafactory has Superchargers installed along with hundreds of HPWC and J1772 connectors for charging.

But then again, there may be a flurry of activity anticipated for the GF, and many more employees will be commuting from the Bay Area to Sparks in their Teslas.

 

[PLUS EV]

Interstate 80 is the fastest way over the Sierra Nevada from northern California. There are a few alternate routes, but they are much slower and are not as direct.

I think the reason is because Truckee is just about the sweet spot for traveling on Interstate 80. Far enough away from Sacramento and points west to be able to bypass Rocklin or Roseville, and far enough away from Lovelock or Winnemucca heading east.

There are not many locations on Interstate 80 east of Rocklin. Colfax is too close, and Verdi at the state line offers a casino and gas stations.

The Gigafactory has Superchargers installed along with hundreds of HPWC and J1772 connectors for charging.

But then again, there may be a flurry of activity anticipated for the GF, and many more employees will be commuting from the Bay Area to Sparks in their Teslas.

Also the Reno supercharger is a significant diversion for those travelling I-80.

 

[gnuarm]

Not trying to be a PITA, but this is the conversation that needs to end for Tesla to be acceptable to most drivers. The discussion of where the Superchargers are and aren't needs to be more about "how nice it was to be able to run my battery down to 10% left and have a charger right there just like the old days when we pumped gas." Some friends of mine will never buy an EV because of the issues I talk about. Also things that are just Tesla like my FWD opening for no apparent reason. There house is maybe 100 feet from the road where my car is parked yet I can stand on the porch and open doors, etc. so I guess the fob in my pocket gets pressed sometimes. At my home the car is about 20 feet away right now and the doors never open accidentally other than the driver door opening every time I walk by. I was told a couple of times that my FWD was open. Who's going to buy a car that has that sort of problem on top of being hard to charge on trips? The enthusiasts, that's who. The rest will buy Bolts and whatever Ford makes.

 

[PLUS EV]

The rest will buy Bolts and whatever Ford makes.

LOL

 

[cpa]

Not trying to be a PITA, but this is the conversation that needs to end for Tesla to be acceptable to most drivers. The discussion of where the Superchargers are and aren't needs to be more about "how nice it was to be able to run my battery down to 10% left and have a charger right there just like the old days when we pumped gas." Some friends of mine will never buy an EV because of the issues I talk about. Also things that are just Tesla like my FWD opening for no apparent reason. There house is maybe 100 feet from the road where my car is parked yet I can stand on the porch and open doors, etc. so I guess the fob in my pocket gets pressed sometimes. At my home the car is about 20 feet away right now and the doors never open accidentally other than the driver door opening every time I walk by. I was told a couple of times that my FWD was open. Who's going to buy a car that has that sort of problem on top of being hard to charge on trips? The enthusiasts, that's who. The rest will buy Bolts and whatever Ford makes.

In the real old days, finding fuel for automobiles was not unlike the modern version of finding adequate charging locations for fast charging. My dad and my grandparents traveled to California from Nebraska in the early '20s in a Model T touring car. Road maps were virtually non-existent for the rural areas. The "blue book" was the 1920 version of crowd sourcing, and it was unreliable. Fueling stations were sometimes open, sometimes closed until morning. They hoped that there was fuel available (I recall that Ts could ignite both gasoline and kerosene, but am not sure on the latter) when they reached a tiny settlement. He recalled knocking on doors asking to buy a couple of gallons of fuel to continue their journey to the next hamlet or large city. Otherwise, they pitched a tent until morning.

Contemporary society has not experienced true privation with refueling ICE vehicles like a century ago. Tesla has jump started the BEV convenience with its Supercharger network. It will only get better.

 

[gnuarm]

The rest will buy Bolts and whatever Ford makes.

LOL

You laugh, but you know it's true. Within a few years every major car company will be making many models of EV and people will be buying them. Tesla will not stand alone anymore and it is hard to say if they will even survive. It has been more than once that an upstart that changed the paradigm didn't survive the turmoil.

 

[gnuarm]

In the real old days, finding fuel for automobiles was not unlike the modern version of finding adequate charging locations for fast charging. My dad and my grandparents traveled to California from Nebraska in the early '20s in a Model T touring car. Road maps were virtually non-existent for the rural areas. The "blue book" was the 1920 version of crowd sourcing, and it was unreliable. Fueling stations were sometimes open, sometimes closed until morning. They hoped that there was fuel available (I recall that Ts could ignite both gasoline and kerosene, but am not sure on the latter) when they reached a tiny settlement. He recalled knocking on doors asking to buy a couple of gallons of fuel to continue their journey to the next hamlet or large city. Otherwise, they pitched a tent until morning.

Yeah, this was a time when most people never traveled 100 miles from home in their entire life too.

Contemporary society has not experienced true privation with refueling ICE vehicles like a century ago. Tesla has jump started the BEV convenience with its Supercharger network. It will only get better.

No one doubts it will get better. What I am discussing how much better it needs to be before half of the US is willing to buy EVs. The one big factor that will continue to haunt EVs is the charging issue. When there is a fast charging station in every city of 25,000 people and you never need drive more than 25 miles to the next highway charger the charging issue will be moot. Then people can hear you when you talk about how quiet they are and how smooth they are and how they don't pollute as much.

Until then everything else you talk about is drowned out by the big question, "How/where do I charge it" even if they would mostly charge at home. They still want to be able to take it to Ocean City in the summer without thinking about it. (that's from Frederick, MD about 180 miles each way) Just my example of a short trip that you have to think about in an EV that is a no brainer in an ICE. When there are enough chargers, visible in enough places, no one will care that they need to charge in OC.

 

[tmoz]

This guy makes some good points.
EVs, Oil, And ICE: Impact By 2023 And Beyond | Seeking Alpha

I don't think CAFE standards will matter because people will not want to drive an ICE car after having experience an EV car.

But yes, not having to think about getting stranded and lower cost batteries are the only two barriers that could possibly delay EVs from taking over in my opinion. Consumer demand and the market are on the side of EVs.

 

[gnuarm]

This guy makes some good points.
EVs, Oil, And ICE: Impact By 2023 And Beyond | Seeking Alpha

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4225153-evs-oil-ice-impact-2023-beyond?page=1

The article is in 22 parts. I'm not sure I can stand wading through that much advertising.

On the second page I realize this is a rehash of a video that presents the same graphs and arguments that the disruption will happen much faster and oddly enough suggests there will be some interesting effects in the transition.

What they all fail to absorb is the fact that by 2025 (just six years away) the mainstream automakers will be making EVs, but it is very unlikely they will have transitioned adequately to manufacture 30 million a year. That would take 120 Teslas. The big iron auto makers are very capable of such a feat, but don't have the will. Yep, they will definitely be in the market with many models by 2025, but they won't be pumping out 30 million cars. The data shown is based on the adoption rates of things like smart phones that don't cost $35,000.

I don't think CAFE standards will matter because people will not want to drive an ICE car after having experience an EV car.

But how many can afford an EV? Yes, they will capture most of the market, but it simply won't be overnight and in the auto industry 6 years is overnight.

But yes, not having to think about getting stranded and lower cost batteries are the only two barriers that could possibly delay EVs from taking over in my opinion. Consumer demand and the market are on the side of EVs.

Your point about the cost of batteries is a huge factor. Until they can make a $20,000 EV with a 250 mile range I don't see EVs "taking over". I think with the low end of ICE autos being around $15,000 the savings in electric vs. gas will make a $20,000 EV competitive. But then when EVs reach $20,000, what will the price of gas be? What will a kW of electricity cost? Another factor to preclude massive sales of EVs in just six years, how will the power industry adjust to cope?