Elon's Model 3 Deception

[Beckler]

Regarding the Bolt talk, the problem with Model 3 is you're getting WAY more car for the extra price.

Elon's statement can be seen as simply answering, "Which EV has more range?" Range per dollar is a different matter. Car per dollar with Model 3 is several TIMES what that bolt thing offers.

This is all irrelevant anyway. The Bolt is utterly irrelevant in the face of Tesla and Model 3. Anyone who would even consider it knows nothing about either of the latter.

 

[calisnow]

First, I agree with you. However, I've heard the mantra "Range is king" or "Get the largest battery you can afford" over and over again. For an outsider, there's no doubt a mixed message coming from the community as a whole. I don't think it comes from ill intent, it's just that there is a wide range of needs. Neither a Ford F1500 nor a Corvette are perfect for everyone, because the differences are completely obvious as are the matching use cases. With an invisible battery and a tech that most people have zero experience with, it becomes confusing.

Fair enough and all else equal - do buy the largest battery. 310 miles for $44K is a helluva deal. But if it puts hebcar beyond reach for an individual I'd definitely buy the cheaper Model 3 than no model 3 at all.

 

[Jeff N]

I don't think it was Elon, but one of the Tesla announcers at last night's event made a statement about the Model S being the only all-electric car to receive Motor Trend's car of the year award. The 2017 Bolt EV won that same award.

You could probably find a way to interpret that Tesla statement as being accurate given a certain context (it was true at the time the Model S was awarded) but I thought it was likely to mislead most people watching the event.

 

[S3XY]

Agree. HUD is coming - how soon unknown. Those high profile hires are doing something deep inside a Tesla lab somewhere.

Coming soon to a Model S/X near you. Model 3? Maybe later.

 

[powertoold]

I'd consider FSD hardware capability next level...

He said the steering controls and system "feels" like a spaceship. People have already started commenting on how nimble it feels, the forward visibility is greater like you are accelerating in some futuristic spaceship with nothing but a touchscreen. Especially when FSD comes.

He never specified, so you can't call this deception.

Kindly compare it to the $35k BMW and Audi offerings. Even the base model with no upgrades has more features.

FSD hardware was announced during reveal part 1. Elon clearly said afterwards that reveal part 1 is over, wait for part 2's next level.

The steering controls and system aren't much different than Model S.

Here's a 33.5k MRSP BMW 3-series, which would probably be lower at a dealer:
Build Your Own - BMW USA
It has better rims, leatherette interior, plus tons of standard tech gadgets, etc:
Home - BMW North America

 

[206er]

super disappointed, no way the base Model 3, which is the only version we can afford, is a better car than even a base Acura TLX. Yeah the TLX is an ICE, which sucks, but it comes with leather, heated seats, decent UI, and unlimited range.

My wife has been trusting my regurgitation of Elon's "this will be an amazing car, even at the base model" message, but after last night we're firmly in the market for an Accord or TLX.

Just a shame.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Coming soon to a Model S/X near you. Model 3? Maybe later.

Yes, that is the current rumor - a Model S/X dash refresh along the lines of Model 3 that includes an augmented reality HUD instead of an instrument cluster...

Keeping it away from Model 3 for now fits the anti-selling part. If it comes to Model S/X, expect it to come to Model 3 later, once things stabilize. At a cost, of course.

Mind you, the "spaceship" controls could in theory refer to something other than an AR HUD. But out of all the rumors, it is the one that makes most sense given the instrument clusterless dash and the original comment which Elon replied with the "spaceship" comment.

All the "retrofitting" of AP2 onto that comment and the unveil part 2 by Elon later on never rang true to me. I do not believe AP2 was what the "spaceship" comment was about, sorry Elon.

I believe there was supposed to be a Model 3 unveil part 2 that would have shown us the "spaceship" controls. It did not happen as planned.

 

[SageBrush]

Here's a 33.5k MRSP BMW 3-series, which would probably be lower at a dealer:

This is your comparison car ?!? It can barely get out of it's own way.
But I get it ... plastic upholstery is just that important to you.

 

[Ken7]

super disappointed, no way the base Model 3, which is the only version we can afford, is a better car than even a base Acura TLX. Yeah the TLX is an ICE, which sucks, but it comes with leather, heated seats, decent UI, and unlimited range.

My wife has been trusting my regurgitation of Elon's "this will be an amazing car, even at the base model" message, but after last night we're firmly in the market for an Accord or TLX.

Just a shame.

I move up another spot. Thanks!

 

[electracity]

super disappointed, no way the base Model 3, which is the only version we can afford, is a better car than even a base Acura TLX. Yeah the TLX is an ICE, which sucks, but it comes with leather, heated seats, decent UI, and unlimited range.

My wife has been trusting my regurgitation of Elon's "this will be an amazing car, even at the base model" message, but after last night we're firmly in the market for an Accord or TLX.

Just a shame.

You have not driven a model 3.

 

[beths11]

Don't get me wrong. I think the Model 3 is an absolutely amazing car.

I just don't understand why Elon would say these things, when they don't match with reality. See Electrek's article about reveal part 2 being closer to production:

Tesla Model 3: Elon Musk originally implied orders could spike after final production reveal, but why?
Part 1 of the Model 3 unveil. Part 2, which takes things to another level, will be closer to production.

Clearly you are not/were not in Marketing.

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

I have come to expect Elon to over promise and under deliver.

I think if people just go by that rule. I doubt anyone would be that disappointed and complaining if Elon actually deliver or not.

 

[powertoold]

This is your comparison car ?!? It can barely get out of it's own way.

Are we talking about speed? Sure, 7.1 0-60 isn't as fast as 5.6, but it's plenty for a mass market audience.

What I'm trying to compare is the standard features and trims and materials, etc. Elon said you can't get a better car for 35k, not even close.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I don't understand why this is speculation. Elon said these things. It was very clear what they implied.

How can anyone misunderstand, reveal part 2 will take things to another level, and he also said reveal part 2 is going to be closer to production (obviously referring to last night's event)?

Reveal 2 turned out to be AP2 and not Model 3-specific. That has been cleared up for 9+ months now.

And since 2>1, it's tough to argue that it's not technically another level.

A lot of the misconceptions going on are people hearing/reading/inferring what they wanted to.

Maybe in THAT sense, Elon should have been more blunt. But I don't think it was done with any ill intent on his part.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I have come to expect Elon to over promise and under deliver.

I think if people just go by that rule. I doubt anyone would be that disappointed and complaining if Elon actually deliver or not.

My pet theory is that around Model 3 unveil, Elon was still thinking they could make AP2 work with MobilEye chip on board as a transitional aid (the EAP board still has an empty spot where MobilEye would have fit). That would have allowed them to quickly ship an AR HUD that would have shown identified objects overlaid on the HUD. As, of course, they could not show a Model 3 feature that Model S/X would not start shipping at the same time at latest...

Now that they had to implement everything themselves, and as EAP still shows the identification is not up to scratch yet, keeping that AR HUD unreleased made sense until AP2 matured.

So, by the time it came to AP2 announcement, Elon relabelled it the "unveil part 2" and unveiled the thing without the spaceship controls, because by then it was known MobilEye would not be on board and Tesla was facing many months of implementation work before suitable object identification etc. would be available. AP2 does not even today show objects on the instrument cluster as well as AP1 does, so driving an AR HUD would probably be impossible with it.

Just speculation of course, but would fit the HUD theory.

 

[Beckler]

super disappointed, no way the base Model 3, which is the only version we can afford, is a better car than even a base Acura TLX. Yeah the TLX is an ICE, which sucks, but it comes with leather, heated seats, decent UI, and unlimited range.

My wife has been trusting my regurgitation of Elon's "this will be an amazing car, even at the base model" message, but after last night we're firmly in the market for an Accord or TLX.

Just a shame.

You need to read more about the insurmountable advantages of EV's - things those models you mention can never have - and specifically Tesla. Safety is a big one and outweighs everything else to anyone who's rational.

 

[206er]

You have not driven a model 3.

nor am I all that interested in doing so after last night...

 

[powertoold]

Clearly you are not/were not in Marketing.

What you guys don't understand is that the Model 3 is supposed to be a 500k/year car. It's not going to be anywhere near that with the current pricing, features, and options.

You have to think outside of the Model S market and into the 3-series market. I think the 3-series only sells about 100k/year in the US.

 

[Matias]

Don't get me wrong. I think the Model 3 is an absolutely amazing car.

I just don't understand why Elon would say these things, when they don't match with reality. See Electrek's article about reveal part 2 being closer to production:

Tesla Model 3: Elon Musk originally implied orders could spike after final production reveal, but why?
Part 1 of the Model 3 unveil. Part 2, which takes things to another level, will be closer to production.

I guess the amount of Model 3 reservations and possibly some Osbourning effect to S sales changed Elon's mind.

 

[McRat]

... I even hugged him once in a bar. ...

With a username of PowerTool, that is entirely Too Much Information.