FSD v12.4

[69KWH]

I'm a huge fan of the torque lock, but not the nags associated with it. The torque lock feature gives AP/FSD an "on the rails" feel, which keeps the vehicle within the lane on sharp curves even if you doze off or stop paying attention for a bit. On other systems, the lane centering feature lets you change lanes easily, but will also disable itself with little to no warning if the curve is too sharp or if it can't see the lanes anymore.

 

[jgleigh]

It's already doing this. No?

Not really. It will slide left when passing a semi, but often gets very close before it decides to move. And it only works for very large trucks.

I want to tell it to stay near the left lane edge all the time when in the left-most lane.

 

[Todd Burch]

So you expect the torque lock to remain, but just no torque nags? Yeah, I can see that as a natural progression of disappointments from Tesla.

Mercedes allows steering wheel corrections while actively engaged in their lane keep assist system. Necessary since it’s so horribly bad.

I’m a trained mechanical engineer and in the course of that schooling took several human factors courses, which discuss how designs can enhace or hinder safety and ease of use based on human psychology and behavior.

From a human factors perspective, a system that lets you steer without disengaging has a significant risk and danger to it. You lose a lack of clarity about whether the system is engaged and whether you or the vehicle is in control.

In the USAF and indeed in all flying, it’s referred to as maintaining positive control. To take over control of an aircraft with two pilots on board there is a readback of control transfer:

“I’ve got the jet.”
“Roger, you have the jet.”

This isn’t for kicks. It’s proven to enhance safety because there have been accidents where both pilots thought the other was flying and the jet just barreled right into the ground.

With ambiguity about whether the system is engaged or not, there would be accidents in which the driver thought the system was engaged but it wasn’t, and the car drifts right into a tree.

I doubt Tesla will go this route.

 

[GNFO]

Mercedes allows steering wheel corrections while actively engaged in their lane keep assist system. Necessary since it’s so horribly bad.

I’m a trained mechanical engineer and in the course of that schooling took several human factors courses, which discuss how designs can enhace or hinder safety and ease of use based on human psychology and behavior.

From a human factors perspective, a system that lets you steer without disengaging has a significant risk and danger to it. You lose a lack of clarity about whether the system is engaged and whether you or the vehicle is in control.

In the USAF and indeed in all flying, it’s referred to as maintaining positive control. To take over control of an aircraft with two pilots on board there is a readback of control transfer:

“I’ve got the jet.”
“Roger, you have the jet.”

This isn’t for kicks. It’s proven to enhance safety because there have been accidents where both pilots thought the other was flying and the jet just barreled right into the ground.

With ambiguity about whether the system is engaged or not, there would be accidents in which the driver thought the system was engaged but it wasn’t, and the car drifts right into a tree.

I doubt Tesla will go this route.

Very good analogy that I'll go one further. At least in the Navy, along with the verbal confirmation there is also a "shake to take, push to pass" of the controls to provide a physical confirmation that backs up the verbal. The torque lock is a physical confirmation that the driver has decided to take control that compliments the aural sound.

The problems with allowing driver steering without disengaging would add to the complications of allowing driver accelerator input during autopilot/FSD. Sure there's a little warning, but I believe there has been at least a few incidents where the driver accuses the car of not braking when in fact they were overriding the car with the accelerator. Then add inadvertent driver steering input to that...

I too prefer to bias a little to the outside of the lane when I'm in an outer lane, but that's an individual preference kind of thing. Maybe it could be part of the chill, etc. settings or it would just naturally fall out of the training FSD gets from driver examples, but allowing driver steering inputs while still engaged adds a lot of potential issues. What if the steering was inadvertent? What if the driver put the car in an unsafe position, then let go of the controls and blamed FSD because it was still technically in control? Now you have to code to recognize further user abuse of the system.