If you fast charge, Tesla will permanently throttle charging

[AnxietyRanger]

Indeed, that speculation adds nothing to the discussion; let alone echoes of echoes of the speculation.

Yet it adds to the fire and ALT-facts start to take on a pseudo image of truth by virtue of the mass of retellings.

Well done.

I dislike your suggestion of alternative facts. It has been made obvious (even in that quote of mine) that the @Bjorn angle is speculation.

We can agree to disagree on what it adds to the discussion or not, though. Personally I consider it a sort of call to action towards Bjorn mostly - check it out if there is anything to this in your car, it might help this discussion along by providing more data.

If Bjorn is potentially affected, he might be in a position to provide us with more data. And if his car has some other reason for the 90 kWh charging rates, that too would be useful information.

 

[bro1999]

Indeed, that speculation adds nothing to the discussion; let alone echoes of echoes of the speculation.

Yet it adds to the fire and ALT-facts start to take on a pseudo image of truth by virtue of the mass of retellings.

Well done.

Speculate no more: it's confirmed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@bro1999

Well, that was quick.

 

[yak-55]

Hah!

TMC is a beehive of misinformation, speculation and spin. Tesla would have to be nuts to set foot in here.

Perhaps it is such a beehive precisely because they refuse to step in with accurate and complete information.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

@Bjorn is a trusted Tesla information source and an enthusiast. He is not one to lie about something like this, I'd say. It adds a lot of veracity to these claims to hear his initial confirmation.

I am now heavily leaning on this being true, but whether or not these throttles are a new addition or some old combo of battery management events colliding in cars of certain age, that remains more unclear.

 

[T34ME]

I've forgotten the name of a certain popular, right wing talk radio host. (I know, they are a dime a dozen these days.) Whenever he oozes over into slander or lies he reminds everybody that his show is entertainment.

That would be "allofum" You betcha!

But back on topic, and speaking of entertainment, 22 pages and this Luddite can't make heads or tails out of what is being said! It appears that the angle of the dangle does not equal the mass of the burro......maybe! The only thing I am interested in is will my Model 3 have "Fahrvergnügen"

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The only thing I am interested in is will my Model 3 have "Fahrvergnügen"

Haven't you heard, it will be the Ultimate Boring Machine.

Or did I mix tweets...

 

[thegruf]

I too have been wondering if this issue could be just applicable to the new chemistry of the 90D pack, and even then perhaps predominantly just the early ones as the chemistry continued to evolve.

If this really does transpire to be the case, I will have to go find my smug mode hat, as I declined the opportunity to upgrade my 85D to 90D during purchase and genuinely there were three factors at the time, 1) delay 2)minor price hike and 3) unproven new battery chemistry.
Of course the decision was also based on the 85D being an 85KWH battery and there being only 5KWH difference, but WK screwed that bit up for me

 

[YauKwan]

I learned of this thread by another owner while stopping at the service center.

Supercharging throttling is akin to how the cell phone carriers dealt with unlimited data and grandfathered plans. We all love cell phone carriers and their customer service

I feel next step is allowing full supercharging speeds if you pay for it. Otherwise your slower supercharging is still unlimited and free.

As for using chademo or supercharger instead of home charging. It's not always related to cost of electricity. If I can charge at supercharging speeds at home, how awesome would that be.

I've had the car since December 2016 so 5 months and have 13k miles. Took several long road trips which Was mostly supercharged, at 100 supercharging cycles. It's an s60d and I've think I'm already in the throttled camp as charging speeds have been reduced.

I hope this gets clarified or resolved either through Tesla itself or some legal action.

 

[ABC2D]

At the risk of being dismissed as just another cheerleader (but kind of hoping that includes cute outfits and pompoms), my two cents:

The OP likely has noticed a real issue with his battery, exacerbated by his unusual usage. My assumption is that Tesla Service correctly called that out on the repair order - but didn't give context as to how often this could happen, leaving this forum rife with speculation.

If it is widespread and going to happen to all, then yes, I agree with posters who feel this should have been disclosed - though I think it's more likely that an engineer, after the fact, discovered the problem through examining logs supplied by a service center & just replied to the service center as to what they believed. I don't think it is something deliberate. I think probably some engineers knew about a few batteries & it never occurred to them that they should be contacting someone to get out a communication. (Because engineers .) But if it is truly an outlier situation (with negligible impact when it does occur) and not likely to impact most customers -- does it really belong as a normal operating issue to be aware of?

I'm trying to imagine all the disclosures this would require for different products if the bar were to be set there. I don't remember an ICE manufacturer meeting that bar - did any of them inform about how to properly break-in a new or rebuilt engine for a car you bought? Yet we all know we needed to do that for every single time, not just outlier cases.

So I guess where I stand now, based on the little actual facts we have, is that the truth lies somewhere in between and doubtful there was any malice on anyone's part - The OP has an issue, we don't (as yet) know how many could be impacted IF they were the same type of user, and if so, it appears the impact is negligible at best. We don't know how widespread because we also have anecdotal evidence of it NOT happening to others.

And I also wish people would stop the personal attacks, even when they think they're being subtle. (Spoiler alert - we see it.) Posts that have no purpose other than to insult people who disagree with them just bring this thread into the gutter.

So far, we have only 1 fact, which might or might not be authentic, but at this point in time it appear to be good - the repair order. In that document, Tesla employee spells out the issue, supposedly confirmed by an "engineer". That's all we got - everything else is speculation.

So, your post creates a wild imaginary story with some wild assumptions:

• Tesla Service correctly called that out on the repair order
• exacerbated by his unusual usage
• it never occurred to them that they should be contacting someone to get out a communication
• though I think it's more likely that an engineer, after the fact, discovered the problem through examining logs supplied by a service center & just replied to the service center as to what they believed
• But if it is truly an outlier situation (with negligible impact when it does occur) and not likely to impact most customers
  
• I don't think it is something deliberate

Then, you conclude, that "the truth lies somewhere in between" the only fact we have and your imagined assumptions - really? But here is the kicker, you further conclude it's "doubtful there was any malice on anyone's part"

As I've mentioned before, there is only 1 fact/document this entire thread is feeding on, but given the history of performance launch counters and they "supposed" removal, it does not speak in Tesla's favor and does make the issue discussed in the thread more truth than fiction, at least up to this point. So, when posts like yours appear, they might be perceived by some towards cheerleader-ish spectrum.

 

[Lloyd]

We have known for some time that an aging battery will loose some capacity as it gets older. We as a group have learned to accept that as a normal part of ownership of a Tesla. To me, it makes total sense that we would see a decrease in the rate of charge also as the battery ages and is used.

I believe and I am speculating that different uses and charging modalities will age a battery in a different way. High percentage of D.C. Charging may affect a battery in one way, where extremes in temperature, or total energy delivered may affect a battery in a different way. Again, We are all learning, Tesla too, how our cars battery will react to different charging conditions. I would be nice if Tesla was more forthcoming with what they have learned so we can apply that to the operation of our cars.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

We have known for some time that an aging battery will loose some capacity as it gets older. We as a group have learned to accept that as a normal part of ownership of a Tesla. To me, it makes total sense that we would see a decrease in the rate of charge also as the battery ages and is used.

I believe and I am speculating that different uses and charging modalities will age a battery in a different way. High percentage of D.C. Charging may affect a battery in one way, where extremes in temperature, or total energy delivered may affect a battery in a different way. Again, We are all learning, Tesla too, how our cars battery will react to different charging conditions. I would be nice if Tesla was more forthcoming with what they have learned so we can apply that to the operation of our cars.

Aging and natural performance degradation are quite different from programmatic counters and throttlers, though.

 

[ABC2D]

As for using chademo or supercharger instead of home charging. It's not always related to cost of electricity. If I can charge at supercharging speeds at home, how awesome would that be

Why? I thinks it's largely irrelevant if you car in your garage charges up in 40 min or in 8 hours - as long as it's ready by the morning, that's all it matters. Yeah, yeah, yeah - a few instances could possibly come up when you need a charged up car ASAP, but they are, most likely, so infrequent that make no reason supercharging speeds at home

 

[Max*]

At the risk of being dismissed as just another cheerleader (but kind of hoping that includes cute outfits and pompoms), my two cents:

The OP likely has noticed a real issue with his battery, exacerbated by his unusual usage. My assumption is that Tesla Service correctly called that out on the repair order - but didn't give context as to how often this could happen, leaving this forum rife with speculation.

If it is widespread and going to happen to all, then yes, I agree with posters who feel this should have been disclosed - though I think it's more likely that an engineer, after the fact, discovered the problem through examining logs supplied by a service center & just replied to the service center as to what they believed. I don't think it is something deliberate. I think probably some engineers knew about a few batteries & it never occurred to them that they should be contacting someone to get out a communication. (Because engineers .) But if it is truly an outlier situation (with negligible impact when it does occur) and not likely to impact most customers -- does it really belong as a normal operating issue to be aware of?

I'm trying to imagine all the disclosures this would require for different products if the bar were to be set there. I don't remember an ICE manufacturer meeting that bar - did any of them inform about how to properly break-in a new or rebuilt engine for a car you bought? Yet we all know we needed to do that for every single time, not just outlier cases.

So I guess where I stand now, based on the little actual facts we have, is that the truth lies somewhere in between and doubtful there was any malice on anyone's part - The OP has an issue, we don't (as yet) know how many could be impacted IF they were the same type of user, and if so, it appears the impact is negligible at best. We don't know how widespread because we also have anecdotal evidence of it NOT happening to others.

And I also wish people would stop the personal attacks, even when they think they're being subtle. (Spoiler alert - we see it.) Posts that have no purpose other than to insult people who disagree with them just bring this thread into the gutter.

I completely agree with this, and I've said it several times in this thread.

It's not what Tesla did, it's how they did it. It's a communication issue, not a malice issue.

If they came out and said "o *sugar*, we discovered that if you fast charge too much it'll destroy your battery, we limited it", I expect a totally different thread.

Still lots of complaining, since well it's TMC... But not as negative.

 

[T34ME]

Haven't you heard, it will be the Ultimate Boring Machine.

It is reported that cars, like dogs, reflect the personality of their owners. If that is the case, said car will be a perfect match for me but only if it is ignorant too!

But back on topic.....what was the topic?

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why? I thinks it's largely irrelevant if you car in your garage charges up in 40 min or in 8 hours - as long as it's ready by the morning, that's all it matters. Yeah, yeah, yeah - a few instances could possibly come up when you need a charged up car ASAP, but they are, most likely, so infrequent that make no reason supercharging speeds at home

Why would you want it to take any longer than necessary, though? Up until now there has been no guidance from Tesla to avoid DC charging. Having a DC charger at home has been discussed many times in the Powerwall conversation as well...

If avoiding DC charging is needed, they need to offer new guidance ASAP. Until then, why would you have any slower charger at home than you can...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It's not what Tesla did, it's how they did it. It's a communication issue, not a malice issue.

Well, lack of communication could have malicious intent behind it (such as to deceive by hiding a pertinent issue). Not saying this is Tesla's intent necessarily, just that lack of communication alone does not put the intent on any kind of badness/goodness scale.

I am sure Tesla did not intentionally make a bad battery, though.

 

[ABC2D]

Why would you want it to take any longer than necessary, though? Up until now there has been no guidance from Tesla to avoid DC charging. Having a DC charger at home has been discussed many times in the Powerwall conversation as well...

If avoidin DC charging is needed, they need to offer new guidance ASAP.

Oh, no, I'm not against DC charging. I was just stating my opinion that fast charging is, more often than not, not necessary for a home solution.

 

[Lloyd]

Aging and natural performance degradation are quite different from programmatic counters and throttlers, though.

We don't know that there are counters or throttlers. This is speculation only.

 

[YauKwan]

Why? I thinks it's largely irrelevant if you car in your garage charges up in 40 min or in 8 hours - as long as it's ready by the morning, that's all it matters. Yeah, yeah, yeah - a few instances could possibly come up when you need a charged up car ASAP, but they are, most likely, so infrequent that make no reason supercharging speeds at home

I live in north jersey and I drive north a lot for business. With the snow and cold weather. You use a lot more battery than normal.

I'm going to stick with the cell phone analogy. I've used the phone the whole day and it's out of juice. But I still have a three hour phone conference with China. Do I not take the business call?

Yes it's not 100% as I can use the phone while it's charging and I cannot with the car.

Not every tesla owner works 9-5 / 5 days a week. Some work more hours with less stable schedules. I need the car charged ready to go, it's why I got a tesla and not a bolt ev.