gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
I’d be surprised the battery wouldn’t need cooling when it’s 100+ degrees outside and the black pavement that your driving over is 150+ degrees right by your battery
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Long Term Battery Costs, Fears, and Serviceability
- Thread starter Skotty
- Start date
It doesn't get that hot in Sweden where our friend resides.
I've charged many times throughout the USA at temperatures well in excess of +100F (+38C) and can assure you that the AC comes on strong. The joke about EVs is that (because of the AC running hard) they sometimes make more noise when parked than they do running. I've had the alert security guards at my office call me to let me know that my car is making a lot of noise when it is charging outside - I just laugh and thank them for their vigilance.
The other interesting thing that sometimes happens with EVs is that a pool of water forms on the floor under an EV while charging from the water that the AC condenses from the air. I've been alerted to this as well. Of course, it is pure, clean, distilled H2O.
This depends on the car. The Roadster had a single HVAC that handled the cabin, the battery, and the motor. When ambient temperatures were hot, it would cool the battery first, then the passengers only if it had spare capacity. Those weren't for the faint of heart but I'm glad they protected my investment.
The Model S (and I presume the X) has 2 HVAC systems, one for the cabin, the other for the battery, motor, and power electronics. I believe (others may know more) that the Models 3 and Y have a single HVAC to handle all these tasks. The newer of these also have the "Octovalve" and "Superbottle" that provide probably the most elegant thermal management system ever designed - Tesla CTO, JB Straubels' crowning glory, IMHO.
Either way, you can be sure that Tesla has done a great job at handling the thermal challenges and taking the best care possible of the expensive battery for you. There is no need to worry if you just keep the car plugged in when convenient.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
That goes back to my original question, If the heat pump goes out on the model 3 then it doesn’t have a way to cool the battery since 1 heat pump does everything?
Does mine have octovalve and superbottle being a mid 2022
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Still can passively cool the battery.
Yes.
Octovalve, and supermanifold you probably mean?
If the heat pump goes out, you'll be told to get it in to service ASAP.
I'll go with @AAKEE assessment that you probably have the new good stuff.
Good to know. Except for our Y, we're still making good use of our original, early Teslas so I haven't paid much attention to the details of the refreshes.
RjbT3
Member
After just 46,000 miles and 4 1/2 years of ownership, last week Tesla service advised me against driving my car as the HV battery was about to fail. It is now at the service centre awaiting a replacement HV battery. Tesla provided a Loaner car (awful experience due to arguments/charges over existing damage). But my main concern is the potential poor standard of the replacement refurb battery, the lack of extended warrantee (it will still be based on my car's age and total mileage) and the potential cost of a future out of warrantee replacement if it fails again.
Tesla say it would cost just under GBP £20,000 (USD $25,000). More than the value of the car which, by the way, is dropping like a stone!
I am now questioning the value of EVs. The batteries are potentially unreliable and very expensive to replace. When the HV battery fails, the warrantee does NOT cover a new replacement. Apparently, the chance of receiving an unreliable replacement battery under warrantee is high because they are refurbished from a previously failed battery. Does anyone else have experience of this? A Model Y owner posted his experience of a double failure on You Tube and I have heard other stories (admittedly older Model S and X).
The seemingly generous 120k mile warrantee isn't as comforting as it appeared and now my head is full of all these concerns, I am put off buying another Tesla. I am concerned my car will become a worthless risk as soon as the warrantee period is up.
I would love to hear some battery fail/replacement stories good and bad. Battery Failure (and Tesla Loaner woes)
I have been very careful with my charging habits since owning my car from new and diligently followed the 80/20 rule charging mostly at home.
Tesla say it would cost just under GBP £20,000 (USD $25,000). More than the value of the car which, by the way, is dropping like a stone!
I am now questioning the value of EVs. The batteries are potentially unreliable and very expensive to replace. When the HV battery fails, the warrantee does NOT cover a new replacement. Apparently, the chance of receiving an unreliable replacement battery under warrantee is high because they are refurbished from a previously failed battery. Does anyone else have experience of this? A Model Y owner posted his experience of a double failure on You Tube and I have heard other stories (admittedly older Model S and X).
The seemingly generous 120k mile warrantee isn't as comforting as it appeared and now my head is full of all these concerns, I am put off buying another Tesla. I am concerned my car will become a worthless risk as soon as the warrantee period is up.
I would love to hear some battery fail/replacement stories good and bad. Battery Failure (and Tesla Loaner woes)
I have been very careful with my charging habits since owning my car from new and diligently followed the 80/20 rule charging mostly at home.
As far as I know the only mass failures of batteries were very early Model S….and their replacements have a good reputation. There are millions of EVs on the road ….are these manufacturers inundated with warranty replacements ? Third party companies specialising in battery replacement are but only because there are so few of them.
Any manufacturered item can fail even ice from companies making them for a century or more.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
Unless I’m mistaken I think following charging rules only lowers your degradation, it doesn’t lower your chance of failure that could happen at anytime could be 50k miles could be 300k miles same as a car engine
Sounds like you have a model S though and their batteries do cost more to replace than than the 3 or Y
With my car I figure and hope it will last me 300k+ miles but if the battery fails outside of the warranty I’ll just take whatever Tesla will offer me for it then buy another car because it won’t be worth buying a 12k battery for a car that’s only worth 20k at that point. I would do the same with a ICE car if my engine failed out of warranty except the difference with the ICE is I would have had to pay for gas too, 120,000 miles of driving the ice would have cost me 10k-14k in gas depending on the mpg
Battery prices are supposed to come down a good bit over the next 5 years before my warranty expires too specifically the 2170 are supposed to get even cheaper within the next year even, the only way I would pay for a battery replacement outside of warranty is if the prices get down to 7k - 8k
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Yes, and no.
The battery failures from other components failing (BMS/BMB), water intrusion and bad solders or loose cables etc. will not be affected.
But long term, for example getting too high imbalance or other things that might come from cells that are so degraded that they no longer work good most probably will happen much mich firther on in the battery life.
So, very long term it is probable to reduce the risks of issues.
I would like to think that Tesla has learned a lot from these > 10 years and that the premature issues we have seen before which can be ruled out by better construction has been fixed and that we should see much less of these further on.
This would probably mean that the batteries would be less prone to get water intrusion etc.
Reducing all common issues will make batteries hold longer and then the possibility to not having it to break down due to degradation is very good.
gottagofast
2022 Model 3 Performance
The car balances the cells by itself while it’s plugged in right? Or is there some charging practices you can do to balance them yourself? Maybe charge to 100% 2 or 3 times per year?
Plugged in or not doesnt matter.
Balancing is made in the top SOC, about 90% or higher (was a specific cell voltage, like 4.10V or os). People also state that Tesla changed the algoritms so the car balances more often. My S doesnt, it stays above 5mV when I'm long time at 30-55%, like 10mV or so. It balances after a charge above that and reach low numbers.
We could say that the car balanses the battery "when needed", and the imbalance I talk about is not just to balance back but some cells starting to degrade more than others and getting less capacity. Difference in capacity is one thing that drives imbalance, difference in internal resistance also.
If these differences goes to high the car might not be albe to keep the cells in balance during normal operation, as the imbalances get more than the car can fix. So, we are talking about a battery that are degraded and a bit tired of the life, developing issues because of that. (but thats also only one axample of what might happen. We could also get lithium plating that causes a short in one or a couple of cells, from extensive supercharging. Cycling the battery in low SOC might be able to recover some of the plated lithium to cycleble lithium - reducing the risk of a short in a cell due to this, and also resotring the capacity a bit).
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