A battery isn’t a single item...it has thousands of components (well, maybe hundreds)...so if only a few components fail it does seem strange to replace everything....especially from a company that is trying to save the environment
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Long Term Battery Costs, Fears, and Serviceability
- Thread starter Skotty
- Start date
Do we know that they replace everything? Or just the failed cells or sheets? I'm sure Tesla has done the analysis for the best economical and, probably, environmental option as they design the packs.
Repairing batteries isn’t a any shop job.
In most cases during warranty it is not the battery cells that break, but other components.
From a environmental view it is good. Fix what’s wrong and use again.
Also, if cells have reached the end of life they are recycled.
That's most of our problem. If the goalposts were moved to a more civilized output with superior range and longevity being the target, who knows what could be achieved in a single design cycle using existing tech?
Tesla needs a second brand for that. A bit like Ford and Mercury, Toyota and Lexus only reversing the usual upscaling of everyday brands.
With an EV, there's no need to hobble them so they can't have high output, you can simply choose not to drive them at max output by not hammering the accelerator. The won't stress the powertrain as much and you may see a bit longer longevity although, today, there is little evidence that it matters in any measurable form.
It needs to be a combination of 1 & 2. Batteries are essentially consumable wear parts, so expecting to get 20 years out of one isn't in the realm of reality, given current technology. GM is getting #2 right with their Ultium battery, which is going into all their new EVs. It's a modular system, designed so if an individual cell goes bad, only that one module needs to be replaced. It also allows the mixing of old and new battery chemistry as it evolves. Tesla is going in the opposite direction, making their battery packs less serviceable, requiring a full pack replacement. In terms of battery replacement cost whether that's the entire pack or sections, if that averages more than the maintenance on a comparable gas car, I'd view that as a failure. EV maintenance in totality, needs to be comparable to, or less than current gas vehicle maintenance.
Likewise I've been driving EVs for 10-11 years now. On my current 2017, I have ~20% battery degradation in year 8 of ownership, and I put on 25-30k miles annually. From watching the various forums all these years, around year 10 is where the battery failures seem to show up in significant numbers.
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Since age and heat seem to be the enemy of battery longevity....this last three days my car has been parked outside...(M3LR, white inside and out and a shade for the glass roof)....the outside temperature was only 26c or 27....but inside the car was 60c !!! It only took two minutes of aircon and almost no battery to get it below 30, but within minutes it would go back up to 60c
Summer hasn’t even started yet
Summer hasn’t even started yet
I think the warranty on P versions is less than the regular models.
Must be some fierce sun high in the sky beating on you. If it gets like that with a shade for me I will be properly insulating and covering the roof.
Does’nt cool here either. On the other hand perhaps it do not need any cooling Sub freezing
Might be slight OT, but the iPhones was programmed to shut down when outside temperature limits. Apple problably did not think these cold get outside the lower limits so the the screen always stated ”iPhone overheated - shutting down”.
This happened on a almost daily basis for several years in winter when out walking the dog
Summer is coming....and now I am starting to worry...because time and heat are killing our batteries...as shown in AAKEE’s graph..
Especially as I have the NMC
......they are the most susceptible to heat.
But this is my question.....the graph was made using battery cells kept at a continuous state of charge and continuous heat (I assume)....so if a car is kept parked in the sun but not all the time....a day here, a week there, 45 minutes, etc etc....is the damage done by the accumulated time equal to the continuous time on the graph ?
Especially as I have the NMC
......they are the most susceptible to heat.But this is my question.....the graph was made using battery cells kept at a continuous state of charge and continuous heat (I assume)....so if a car is kept parked in the sun but not all the time....a day here, a week there, 45 minutes, etc etc....is the damage done by the accumulated time equal to the continuous time on the graph ?
Think average temperature.Summer is coming....and now I am starting to worry...because time and heat are killing our batteries...as shown in AAKEE’s graph..
Especially as I have the NMC
But this is my question.....the graph was made using battery cells kept at a continuous state of charge and continuous heat (I assume)....so if a car is kept parked in the sun but not all the time....a day here, a week there, 45 minutes, etc etc....is the damage done by the accumulated time equal to the continuous time on the graph ?
The SEI build up speed is set by SOC x Temp. So if you use the average cell temp you will get it right.
This is LG M-50, from a report testing them.
Probably not exactly the cell in Teslas but probably very close in these behaviours.
Definitely do not worry. I live where temperatures in summer regularly exceeds +40C in the summer and I've parked my Model 3 with NMC batteries outside nearly every day for the past 6 years and there is no unexpected loss of range (still charges to ~287 miles). The key point is to keep the car charged. It will take care of the battery by running the A/C if necessary.
Do you start charging as soon as you plug in? Or schedule charge/departure?
What is your daily max charge set to?
Finding it hard to understand you have not lost any range in 6 years. Trying to see if you do something unique in your charging/usage routine. What city?
I either charge at work upon plug-in to be charged from the grid while it is at low demand and high solar output or at home, set for scheduled departure in the morning.
My daily max charge is generally at 80%. I'll sometimes bump it up to 90% or higher if I'm going to be driving immediately after it is fully charged and I want a bit more safety margin. This is probably the only place I really pay attention to protecting the battery.
We've definitely lost range, ~10% loss since new. That just isn't unexpected over 6 years and 150,000 miles. I doesn't affect our usage much, we still take long road trips.
Most of the time we're in Southern California, in various inland areas where it does get hot, probably not as much as Las Vegas though. Our friends who were concerned here claim to be in France though, where it never gets as hot as those of us in the desert southwest USA experience regularly.
I'll also add that we generally park in the garage overnight where the floor has been shaded during the day. Coming home from work and parking on blacktop that has been heating during the day, definitely stresses a battery. It can be 80C or hotter if it is in direct sun (one can easily fry an egg on it). That's like parking on a stove burner. If you live in Las Vegas, you are in an extreme environment that probably warrants taking some mitigating action against the heat to help your battery. I recommend at least parking under a carport when you get home from work. This issue was the cause attributed to many of the Nissan Leafs where batteries died the first summer in places like Phoenix, AZ.
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