Off topic, but the tech said he thought it would be around $300 and they will do them mobile. But he said definitely get an alignment after (more $$). Techs are told to drive and use something in service mode to verify alignment, but it doesn't really do much.
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"Proactive" 12v battery replacement - good idea or overkill?
- Thread starter joebruin77
- Start date
The Tesla service manual literally says you don't need an alignment unless the EPAS check (the "thing in service mode") doesn't pass.
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Use the following tables to determine the suspension alignment requirement according to the service performed on the component.
service.tesla.com
FYI, the EPAS test requires the car to be driven. It's pretty effective, I've done it myself a few times:
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Correction code 31001500 0.10 NOTE: Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the procedure, the above correction code and FRT reflect all of the work required to perform this procedure, including the linked procedures. Do not stack correction codes unless explicitly told to do so.NOTE: See Flat...
service.tesla.com
Interesting. He said he had a few cars that it passed and the driver claimed it chewed up their tires pretty quick and alignment showed out. Maybe not typical.The Tesla service manual literally says you don't need an alignment unless the EPAS check (the "thing in service mode") doesn't pass.
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Use the following tables to determine the suspension alignment requirement according to the service performed on the component.service.tesla.com
FYI, the EPAS test requires the car to be driven. It's pretty effective, I've done it myself a few times:
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Correction code 31001500 0.10 NOTE: Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the procedure, the above correction code and FRT reflect all of the work required to perform this procedure, including the linked procedures. Do not stack correction codes unless explicitly told to do so.NOTE: See Flat...service.tesla.com
pdx_m3s
Active Member
EPAS is not an alignment and should not be considered equivalent. EPAS cannot validate camber and toe like a laser alignment machine.The Tesla service manual literally says you don't need an alignment unless the EPAS check (the "thing in service mode") doesn't pass.
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Use the following tables to determine the suspension alignment requirement according to the service performed on the component.service.tesla.com
FYI, the EPAS test requires the car to be driven. It's pretty effective, I've done it myself a few times:
Model 3 Service Manual | Tesla
Correction code 31001500 0.10 NOTE: Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the procedure, the above correction code and FRT reflect all of the work required to perform this procedure, including the linked procedures. Do not stack correction codes unless explicitly told to do so.NOTE: See Flat...service.tesla.com
Correct, and Tesla does not indicate it does. Which is why Tesla has a whole table of what was changed vs what kind of check is needed. I linked it above, you should review it and see if you think it's reasonable. In many cases it requires a full alignment no matter what.
Replacing control arms don't change camber enough to take the car out of camber alignment. Any slight change in camber may change toe for sure, which EPAS has a high chance of catching.
But remember, this is all about if swapping one factory camber arm for another camber arm changed the alignment. The assumption here is the car was aligned before. You hardly have to take anything adjustable off the car to do this. So it's reasonable to use a quick check to see if you need to do a deeper check given 90% of the time nothing is needed.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
How those online tools operate to get such sleeping status information without waking up the car?
Is there an log file that each car maintains and that can be downloaded by the online tools periodically?
They query the Tesla API to ask if the car is awake or not every few seconds. When the car wakes up or sleeps it tells the Tesla servers it's changing state, so you can get that state without directly querying the car (which would wake it up).
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
I wish this could be added to my phone App, which is connected to the Tesla servers,
to avoid weaking up my car everytime I just want to access my Tesla account information,
especially since some information, such as for example the Supercharger session payments,
are not accessible from the Tesla.com/teslaaccount, so you need to use your phone to do so.
Note: Everytime you wake up your Tesla vehicle, the (12V DC to 400V DC) inverter is activated so
the relay contactor poles get already set to 400V before activating the high voltage battery relay
to avoid any arcing when weaking up the car. Weaking up the whole vehicle is useless if you just
want to access saved tire pressures, maybe crack the windows, open the trunk or the frunk...
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Waking up the car doesn't use that much energy. Are you accessing that data so often that you are really worried about the additional drain? With modern Tesla firmware it's really not an issue.
It would be an issue for a tool that is trying to access the car every 10 seconds and would thus never, ever let it sleep.
It would be an issue for a tool that is trying to access the car every 10 seconds and would thus never, ever let it sleep.
Watts_Up
Well-Known Member
Everytime my car weak up, the car stays up like 10 minutes, before going back to sleep.
Sometime, the car weak up for no reason, maybe the Tesla server is doing some remote access.
I can follow this on my 12V battery monitor.
I wish Sentry could run locally using the 12V battery like I am doing using my dashcam,
instead to have Sentry keeping the car awake and the DC/DC inverter running all the time.
Sentry takes more juice than 12V could handle. I’m glad of the way that Tesla does this as it keeps the stress of the 12V low. Hyundai/Kia has all sorts of systems on that 12V and their battery goes Kaput in about a year. I’m in my 3rd 12V battery on my EV6 and a ton of other owners have this issue. Tesla’s way seems far superior.
I’m well aware of how it maintains the 12v battery.
My point was that if you’re not driving it daily, or often, then the battery will slowly drain to the point that the car has to wake up to maintain it.
These deep discharge cycles are more fatiguing to the battery than if the car is being regularly driven, because the 12v is maintained continuously while the car is awake. It never gets too low from being left idle.
In the case of my car, I’ve done just over 7000 miles in nearly 4 years. My car can be sat idle for weeks at a time.
All I can say is that in my own experience I’ve had to have two replacement 12v batteries (received alert that it needed to be replaced). Since removing the frunk kit that was permanently live, I’ve had less frequent wake ups.
Not the way the car works, and I've seen no data that battery replacement time is related to miles driven a year.
You're assuming something that isn't true which is that the battery is charged specifically and differently when being driven like in an ICE car. The front controller in the car doesn't have to allow any current flow to the battery while it's being driven. It's not just on the 12V DC bus. If Tesla wanted to, they could not charge the battery at all while you drive and then only charge it when not being driven.
The observation above even supports this:
Notice that the specific charge cycles and specific drive cycles are different voltages?
Also, unless you drive the car every day, you're still getting a full deep discharge cycle, and even faster as the battery ages.
Sentry is a marketing hack on an engineering system that was never meant to have this function.
It uses a general purpose computer and CV system which has to be fully booted up and powered in order to process and record anything.
This would kill a 12V car battery in just a few hours because it's not specailized like a dashcam, it's just software on your general purpose laptop.
Then, because the HV system was never designed to do efficent conversion of 50W from the HV to LV system, you have to power on a bunch of high powered contactors just to run a 50W load. Which you use another 100W just to support the 50W. But you have to do this the whole time sentry is on, or you'll kill 12V batteries really fast, and people are already annoyed there is a 12V battery at all (see this thread). Even worse in the newer cars with much smaller Li-Ion batteries.
It's almost unethical how Tesla sells an EV that supposedly uses less energy and then doesn't tell users just how much energy Sentry can use (about another 7,500 miles a year in electricity if you leave it on all the time). All so you might have a video of the car that bumped into you which your insurance company won't care about at all because it doesn't prove who did it and your deductable will be identical.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I think he is making a different point: that by not driving the car very often, his car is asleep for more hours and longer than a typical car of the same age, and thus there will be more wear on the battery. He's not saying the 12V battery is charging specifically/differently when driven, he says that the SOC is being maintained while car is awake (which your quoted text supports).
7000 miles over 4 years, just using 50mph average for easy math, means 140 hours of driving. Also estimating the sleep timing: 10 minutes to fall asleep, average 40 miles a trip (the 40 miles from previous typical estimates of average driver trips), there is 29 hours from this, so total 169 hours. Over the 35040 hours of 4 years, 0.5% of the time.
The average driver instead would drive 14k miles a year or 56k miles over 4 years or 1120 hours of driving. Sleep wait time estimated at 233 hours. Total 1353 hours. or 3.8% of 35040 hours.
Which means the battery should last 3.3% longer if driven all the time. So it should last 4 years if driven all the time and 1.5 month less if never driven. Which is my point that it doesn't really matter. No so much that you're replacing batteries at 2 years if not driven and 4 if driven.
The argument that driving every day would avoid deeper discharge and signifgantly change the life of the battery would make sense to me if it worked that way.
Just another datapoint. Replaced (with no warning) the battery in my UK '19 model 3 with a Bosch 158 (£80) I think 2 weeks ago, since I have a long trip coming up. Warning yesterday about scheduling a service appointment, and lots of warnings this morning about sensors (which makes me think the LV has maybe reset). This battery is speced at 45Ah, 330cca. Seems like I need to investigate service mode as referenced a couple of pages back.
VegarHenriksen
Member
I do not recommend using non-original batteries as the car has a gateway code for what type of battery is used. This code is probably attached to how the DC-DC will keep the 12v charged.
Here in the US in service mode one can select an Atlas battery or a Clarios battery. The specifications you show sound similar to the Clarios. Go into service mode (red bordered screen) select LV page and change the battery type. To enter service mode, on the software page press and hold the car type for about 5 seconds (it's an invisible button). The screen will pulse under your finger. Password is service. Agree to disclaimers then proceed. Press and hold the red arrow button to exit service mode.
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I got into service mode fine, and unlocked the gateway, but the change type request fails. I'm struggling to find any reference to the error:
Failed to update twelveVBatteryType configuration`
There are currently two battery faults set - I wonder if I need to put the old non-failed battery back in, or otherwise clear these faults first?
Failed to update twelveVBatteryType configuration`
There are currently two battery faults set - I wonder if I need to put the old non-failed battery back in, or otherwise clear these faults first?
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