Sorry, I actually like the new UI :)

[Sporty]

Yes, but not everyone wanted or needed all those settings on the bottom bar. And it's a huge exaggeration to think 2 taps vs 1 is going to make any meaningful difference to a system that takes a lot longer than 2 seconds to do its job. Sure, the wipers were out front, but it still required more taps than the current setting, so where was the advantage? Also, the defrost icons were almost all the way to the right. How was that convenient? Most drivers would have to look to the bottom right to accurately select them.

Here's the smaller climate settings bar that comes up when tapping to the left or right of the temp icon:

View attachment 757358

There's no need to always launch the full climate settings window and the defrost buttons are pretty much at your fingertips. All it takes is a quick glance to the bottom and back to the road rather than glancing to the end of the screen for the old buttons.

IMO it is a meaningful difference.
I understand that for some people it’s not. And I’m not trying to tell you that you should change your opinion. I am however trying to say that for some people, including me, that some aspects of the update have made negative difference in a meaningful way.

 

[bo3bdar]

UX is not actually rocket science, it's really quite well understood nowadays, and professional designers have a lot of guidelines that they use, that were learned from years of experience, experimentation, and practice.

For you guys saying 2 taps is no big deal- here is a response from a professional UX designer, explaining how this is completely the wrong approach:

Is Tesla’s v11 update… bad design?

The mistake even the best design teams get wrong, and how it can be avoided.

medium.com

 

[AustinPowers]

I have found, for many functions, voice commands are better than either UI.

Pity that for the German language version voice commands other than music search is pretty useless.

 

[rjpjnk]

As for what's considered critical? That's subjective. For me, it was the wipers. They could have buried the defroster and heated seat icons under 5 menu layers, and I'd be fine. Without a fully customizable UI, there's really no way to satisfy a broad segment of the driver base.

I think this is the heart of the matter. Without full customization there is no one UI that will satisfy everyone so compromise is necessary. Unfortunately though, some people feel so strongly about features they believe to be obviously "essential" or "critical" that they can't seem to tolerate any viewpoint that doesn't place these on the main screen. The debate is good, but the contention is painful and sucks some of the joy out of owning one of the world's greatest cars.

 

[Tezlowski]

I remember reading similar complaints with the 20.48.x update. As for what's considered critical? That's subjective. For me, it was the wipers. They could have buried the defroster and heated seat icons under 5 menu layers, and I'd be fine. Without a fully customizable UI, there's really no way to satisfy a broad segment of the driver base.

Like the start menu in Windows, they made the car icon the focal point. Here's a pic of the old UI:

View attachment 757329

There were 5 items I never used: heated seats, defrosters and volume. And the climate controls were right of center requiring the driver to look further to the right. The windshield wiper icon required 3 steps to turn on and set the speed so it was just quicker to use the stalk.

The cam and viewer icons were tiny and easy to miss while driving and trying to save a video. And map window was smaller.

IMO, the biggest upside to the old UI was being able to keep the cards on the screen and since I checked the tire pressure once a week, I can easily live with where it is now. And don't get me started with the confusing music layout. Now, I hit one button (streaming) and all music sources and options that I use are in one place.

Exactly. All the clutter and nonsense is gone, much cleaner, streamlined and all, especially the music sources, DITTO!

 

[john5520]

And before they were one tap away. In an easier location (at the edge of the screen vs in the middle.) And you could see if they were on or not.

But it's ok, because now we have blank space on the screen (and sonic.) How is this better?

We'll agree to disagree. IMO, closer to the driver is easier and they're actually more to the left of the screen. And you could still check if they're on or not. Do you need to check while you're about to pass someone? You do it when it's safe.

 

[sleepydoc]

@john5520: since when does one need to constantly check tire pressure?

In the winter time in MN (and many other northern areas) when the temperature drops to -30 your tire pressure can drop significantly which also affects driving safety. I've also had times when I was worried about a slow leak.

There were 5 items I never used: heated seats, defrosters and volume. And the climate controls were right of center requiring the driver to look further to the right. The windshield wiper icon required 3 steps to turn on and set the speed so it was just quicker to use the stalk.

The cam and viewer icons were tiny and easy to miss while driving and trying to save a video. And map window was smaller.

IMO, the biggest upside to the old UI was being able to keep the cards on the screen and since I checked the tire pressure once a week, I can easily live with where it is now. And don't get me started with the confusing music layout. Now, I hit one button (streaming) and all music sources and options that I use are in one place.

Yes, but not everyone wanted or needed all those settings on the bottom bar. And it's a huge exaggeration to think 2 taps vs 1 is going to make any meaningful difference to a system that takes a lot longer than 2 seconds to do its job. Sure, the wipers were out front, but it still required more taps than the current setting, so where was the advantage? Also, the defrost icons were almost all the way to the right. How was that convenient?

Well, I never use the dash cam, or the games, or tidal, or spotify or....

It's odd that you're extolling the new layout but griping about the old music layout. I never had problems with it and still find it preferable to the new - now I have a whole bunch of extra crap from sources and streaming services I never use. Before you just clicked the music button and everything was there.

Living in South FL you likely never have need for heating functions but the majority of the US and other countries do. Regardless, their presence did not harm you in any way. (The map window can be resized by dragging the vertical border.) I do agree with you that the wipers have not functionally changed but It's also a huge exaggeration to say that it was even remotely necessary to remove the other icons in the first place. Had they made an option to hide them for the 2% of the population that never used them then no one would be complaining, but they didn't. They took them away and gave us a button for games. I hope you won't try to argue that having games or the toy box always available is more important than the seat heaters, defroster or wipers.

The cards is another baffling change. Many people kept the trip card up to monitor their energy usage; it was far simpler, easier and more usable than the huge energy screen that takes up half the display. (I've never found that screen to be useful, anyway.) If you didn't like the cards you never had to use them or even see them. There's no reason they couldn't add the info to the controls screen and left the cards as they were.

 

[john5520]

The point is not that it takes longer for the defogger to work; the point is that it takes longer for the driver to activate it. Which means longer attention diversion from driving. Why make something critical for driving more difficult to access than something that you actually cannot even use while driving? The fact that _you_ never use it does not mean that large part of population use it a lot. By your logic the games should not only be more hidden but even removed - _I_ never use them.
Yes, ability to customize is the best solution but, absent that, why making the car more difficult to drive?

There was an argument being made earlier about the screen fogging up in seconds and the defogger took too long to activate. My counterpoint was that it didn't matter as defogging takes time.

I've tested activating the defroster from the little bar a few times, and I don't think there's even a full second difference. And attention is being diverted from the screen regardless of button positioning.

 

[Boza]

In V10 the button was easily accessible, to the point that I did not need to look and find it. It also provided status at a glance.
In V11 the button is behind a menu and requires attention to be diverted from the road. Status is also available only after opening the menu.
We can argue how much harder it is (there is a ton of research on humans capabilities to switch attention and it is not linear) but, objectively, hiding something under menu makes it harder to access and use. People who use that function a lot question the tradeoff made with other functions that are easier to access despite the fact that they are disabled during driving.
The argument for decluttering is a red herring - with the new entertainment system they increased the clutter. In V10 there was one button; now there are multiple buttons.
No one argues that defogger, seat warmer, etc. are not available. The real puzzle is the prioritization of the UI effort - secondary to driving functions are made easier to access than primary to driving functions. That is weird decision for a car UI.

 

[lensovet]

volume

I guess you never have passengers in your car? That’s literally why that button is on the far right.

Also the climate was centered when it wasn’t split.

 

[Boza]

There was an argument being made earlier about the screen fogging up in seconds and the defogger took too long to activate. My counterpoint was that it didn't matter as defogging takes time.

I've tested activating the defroster from the little bar a few times, and I don't think there's even a full second difference. And attention is being diverted from the screen regardless of button positioning.

The argument was about timing. When the windshield starts to fog up you need to react right away; cannot wait for appropriate moment to divert your attention - which amplifies the issue.

 

[sleepydoc]

We'll agree to disagree. IMO, closer to the driver is easier and they're actually more to the left of the screen. And you could still check if they're on or not. Do you need to check while you're about to pass someone? You do it when it's safe.

So why not simply movie it closer? "it's too far away so we removed it completely" ???

 

[john5520]

In the winter time in MN (and many other northern areas) when the temperature drops to -30 your tire pressure can drop significantly which also affects driving safety. I've also had times when I was worried about a slow leak.



Well, I never use the dash cam, or the games, or tidal, or spotify or....

It's odd that you're extolling the new layout but griping about the old music layout. I never had problems with it and still find it preferable to the new - now I have a whole bunch of extra crap from sources and streaming services I never use. Before you just clicked the music button and everything was there.

I'm not saying you're wrong for preferring the cards or checking often. But let's be honest, checking the pressure constantly is not necessary. And there's an indicator when it drops low. With that said, I agree that the option to have other settings up simultaneously (not blocking other windows) should come back even they're apps that can be dragged to a section of the screen.

The streaming music app has made it simpler for me as I use multiple sources. I found that it took more taps before to get to what I needed. I also like the drop-down list. The differences of opinion on this is expected.

As for the games, Spotify etc. Those are all optional items on the bottom bar. The familiar idea of an app tray is what I think they're going for and it's not just for games. There's a good chance they'll add other settings as time goes by. They may even include a defroster app you can place anywhere. It's a step towards the customization I think we all would like.

Living in South FL you likely never have need for heating functions but the majority of the US and other countries do. Regardless, their presence did not harm you in any way. (The map window can be resized by dragging the vertical border.) I do agree with you that the wipers have not functionally changed but It's also a huge exaggeration to say that it was even remotely necessary to remove the other icons in the first place. Had they made an option to hide them for the 2% of the population that never used them then no one would be complaining, but they didn't. They took them away and gave us a button for games. I hope you won't try to argue that having games or the toy box always available is more important than the seat heaters, defroster or wipers.

You're making it seem like they took away the defroster functionality when they actually moved them closer to the driver. And the more I test the little bar, the more I question whether it actually takes any longer to activate regardless of requiring 2 steps. You can argue that it's less intuitive not having the icons displayed out front but learning where they are is simple.

They needed more space on the bottom bar to allow for the placement of the moveable / most used icons. They also wanted to place the volume button closer to the driver and further separate the driver and passenger climate buttons. Though, I think they should remove the 'most used settings' bar and repurpose it for adding more apps.

 

[john5520]

I guess you never have passengers in your car? That’s literally why that button is on the far right.

Also the climate was centered when it wasn’t split.

My passengers ask to up the volume and the climate setting was clearly off centered.

 

[john5520]

IMO it is a meaningful difference.
I understand that for some people it’s not. And I’m not trying to tell you that you should change your opinion. I am however trying to say that for some people, including me, that some aspects of the update have made negative difference in a meaningful way.

Here, I was specifically referring to the defroster settings. And I'd stick to my opinion on that.

 

[john5520]

In V10 the button was easily accessible, to the point that I did not need to look and find it. It also provided status at a glance.
In V11 the button is behind a menu and requires attention to be diverted from the road. Status is also available only after opening the menu.
We can argue how much harder it is (there is a ton of research on humans capabilities to switch attention and it is not linear) but, objectively, hiding something under menu makes it harder to access and use. People who use that function a lot question the tradeoff made with other functions that are easier to access despite the fact that they are disabled during driving.
The argument for decluttering is a red herring - with the new entertainment system they increased the clutter. In V10 there was one button; now there are multiple buttons.
No one argues that defogger, seat warmer, etc. are not available. The real puzzle is the prioritization of the UI effort - secondary to driving functions are made easier to access than primary to driving functions. That is weird decision for a car UI.

From reading many of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems many people are simply ignorant of where the new settings are located, not that they're necessarily harder to activate. Now, an argument could be made that the UI should be more intuitive, but I would counter that the customization possibilities going forward outweigh the minor annoyance of having to relearn the new locations. I'm just hopeful that Tesla doesn't drag their feet. They could make some people happier by simply including more settings-oriented apps.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

When we get a few more user configurable "slots" at the bottom, along with a few more options for those functions, I bet that resolves a majority of the complaints.

 

[sleepydoc]

I'm not saying you're wrong for preferring the cards or checking often. But let's be honest, checking the pressure constantly is not necessary. And there's an indicator when it drops low. With that said, I agree that the option to have other settings up simultaneously (not blocking other windows) should come back even it's an app that can dragged to a section of the screen.

Yeah, tire pressure is probably the thing I miss least. The trip card I used all the time, though.

The streaming music app has made it simpler for me as I use multiple sources. I found that it took more taps before to get to what I needed. I also like the drop-down list. The differences of opinion on this is expected.

As for the games, Spotify etc. Those are all optional items on the bottom bar. The familiar idea of an app tray is what I think they're going for and it's not just for games. There's a good chance they'll add other settings as time goes by. They may even include a defroster app you can place anywhere. It's a step towards the customization I think we all would like.

You're making it seem like they took away the defroster functionality when they actually moved them closer to the driver. And the more I test the little bar, the more I question whether it actually takes any longer to activate regardless of requiring 2 steps. You can argue that it's less intuitive not having the icons displayed out front but learning where they are is simple.

They needed more space on the bottom bar to allow for the placement of the moveable / most used icons. They also wanted to place the volume button closer to the driver and further separate the driver and passenger climate buttons. Though, I think they should remove the 'most used settings' bar and repurpose it for adding more apps.

I get the app tray concept, but for a car it's a poor solution, especially as they have it implemented. If you look at the 'apps' that they gave us, the majority of them are items which shouldn't be used at all while driving while at the same time removing items which are critical (or very important for driving.) It's baffling to argue that I should have a web browser or arcade icon in the app tray but no defroster or seat heater. (and even with the app tray there's plenty of room for the other items.)

They designed the App tray similar to what you have on an iPad, but it was an incredibly poorly thought out decision. It's a car, not an iPad and the uses are completely different.

 

[MacNeil]

The argument was about timing. When the windshield starts to fog up you need to react right away; cannot wait for appropriate moment to divert your attention - which amplifies the issue.

Different drivers will have different experiences with windows fogging up. Personally I don't ever recall having a sudden fogging of the window that needed quick action; usually something that comes on slowly in my experience. But I don't doubt that it could be an issue in certain climates or certain weather conditions. The need to activate wipers quickly is definitely an issue, with the rain sensing not working well or water splashed up from other vehicles. My go-to move for those situations is the button at the end of the stalk, nothing that involves the screen.

 

[smogne41]

From reading many of the comments here and elsewhere, it seems many people are simply ignorant of where the new settings are located, not that they're necessarily harder to activate. Now, an argument could be made that the UI should be more intuitive, but I would counter that the customization possibilities going forward outweigh the minor annoyance of having to relearn the new locations. I'm just hopeful that Tesla doesn't drag their feet. They could make some people happier by simply including more settings-oriented apps.

Almost nobody is saying that. Effectivily everybody knows where the settings are. You are just choosing to miss the entire point....