Tesla autopilot HW3

[chillaban]

The problem is who gets to define “reasonable”? If it’s Tesla, I’m sure their definition would be something along the lines of “free supercharging for life if you trade in your now-obsolete AP2 vehicle for a shiny new AP3 vehicle”. Whereas my definition would be “I purchased this car for the sole purpose of the FSD feature you advertised on your site, so if my car can’t deliver on that let me know when one that can deliver on it rolls off the line and we’ll swap fobs and call it good”.

I simply want to be made whole, and I truly don’t give any f*cks how much it’ll cost them to do it. Maybe Elon can stop paying people $50k to smear a hero in the press and stop flying his jet 20 miles several times per day long enough to cover the cost of his big lying mouth.

For my statement I get to define reasonable. Reasonable is what makes me feel happy about some sort of trade in offer. I'm not expecting anything outrageous from them..... I'm not super hard to please. 99.99% of my posting history here has been positive since I joined with a 70D AP1. But the whole situation of being one of the first to buy FSD and one of the last to get HW3 is really starting to take the toll on my satisfaction. And I'm not going to be happy to sit around waiting for Tesla to "figure out" what to do about AP2. They had since 2016. They could've done that every time they designed new hardware.

 

[timewasted]

You may want it as much as you wish, this is not how things role.
If Tesla is unable to fulfill your order, they may decide to return the payment or buy back your vehicle.
And you are free to walk away.
You do not get to define the terms, you've already agreed to them when you decided to pay.

The bolded option would be wonderful!

And for the record, I’m not saying a new car is the only acceptable way to make me whole. I would gladly take the promised retrofit to get me up to AP3, but since the comment that I replied to was musing about what a reasonable alternative to that would look like in the event of a retrofit not happening, I would consider that or your buyback option to be reasonable.

 

[ahkahn]

I’m now getting the impression that they may instead opt to try and cajole AP2 owners who prepaid for FSD to upgrade the entire car with a mildly sweeter trade-in or discount, as it’s probably not worth their time and effort to retrofit AP3 hardware on AP2.

I’m not sure I’d be happy with that arrangement, but I also wouldn’t be shocked.

<— AP2, MCU1, prepaid FSD in 7/2017

We both got our cars at the same time. And, yes, I'd probably bite on that offer depending on the deal. It would have to be more than I put into the FSD for it to make sense... mainly because of the vehicle depreciation on the current car.

 

[electronblue]

You may want it as much as you wish, this is not how things role.
If Tesla is unable to fulfill your order, they may decide to return the payment or buy back your vehicle.
And you are free to walk away.
You do not get to define the terms, you've already agreed to them when you decided to pay.

In the end, neither does Tesla get to decide how things roll. They also agreed to terms at sale and legislation adds to that.

There is some middleground somewhere and it may take legal action to find it of course.

 

[alsetym]

All I’m saying is that — as expected by anyone who really objectively has followed Tesla for long, but denied by so many here and elsewhere — the concerns that early FSD owners with AP2/2.5 would fall behind were legitimate, as were the concerns that the HW3 retrofit project would be trying and delayed for Tesla, further adding to this legitimate concern.

How much, that is the only remaining question. The rest is already historical fact and yes, we were right.

Luckily the accountants will keep them honest. They can't recognize the revenue until that computer is in my car...and they want that revenue.

 

[Watts_Up]

When reading those comments, I wonder if there should be two separate threads between the Model S or X, and the Model 3,
because I believe that they don't share the same computers?

It's my assumption that the Model 3 has only the HW2.5 hardware while the Model S or X might have HW1.0, 1.5, 2.0, or 2.5?

So the above possible refund would only be associated with the Model S or X?

Or may be it would help when someone make a comment, to indicate which model and hw version they are taking about,
such as 2017 Model S Hw 2.0 or 2018 Model 3 Hw 2.5?

 

[Saghost]

When reading those comments, I wonder if there should be two separate threads between the Model S or X, and the Model 3,
because I believe that they don't share the same computers?

It's my assumption that the Model 3 has only the HW2.5 hardware while the Model S or X might have HW1.0, 1.5, 2.0, or 2.5?

So the above possible refund would only be associated with the Model S or X?

Or may be it would help when someone make a comment, to indicate which model and hw version they are taking about,
such as 2017 Model S Hw 2.0 or 2018 Model 3 Hw 2.5?

There is no 1.5. AP1 is the Mobileye computer, and Tesla used that right up until AP2 was announced in October of 2016.

You're otherwise correct - and in fact the Model 3 versions of the AP2.5 and AP3 computers appear to be different from the Model S/X versions - water cooled, where the S/X version is air cooled. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Of course, there are also natively AP3 cars - that's the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months, S/X and 3 both.

 

[electronblue]

Of course, there are also natively AP3 cars - that's the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months, S/X and 3 both.

Not quite true. We know they said that, but in reality an unknown (but not insignificant) amount of Model 3s at least have shipped with HW2.5 since the HW3 manufacturing announcement — cars without FSD from factory.

There are threads on TMC about this.

As for ”AP 1.5” there was a prototype MobilEye system but yeah it never shipped beyond the AP1 Model X two-camera masking plates.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

When reading those comments, I wonder if there should be two separate threads between the Model S or X, and the Model 3,
because I believe that they don't share the same computers?

It's my assumption that the Model 3 has only the HW2.5 hardware while the Model S or X might have HW1.0, 1.5, 2.0, or 2.5?

So the above possible refund would only be associated with the Model S or X?

Or may be it would help when someone make a comment, to indicate which model and hw version they are taking about,
such as 2017 Model S Hw 2.0 or 2018 Model 3 Hw 2.5?

This thread is specifically about HW3 so I don't think there should be a different thread depending on a persons upgrade path.

Only HW2 and above people are vested in an upgrade path existing as they were promised a vehicle capable of FSD.

As to refunds and all that it's too early to tell.

The only thing official from Tesla so far is that HW2 owners who have the FSD option will get upgraded.

Tesla has not started official upgrades. They're still in the "lets test it out" phase of upgrading a few select vehicles first.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

There is no 1.5. AP1 is the Mobileye computer, and Tesla used that right up until AP2 was announced in October of 2016.

You're otherwise correct - and in fact the Model 3 versions of the AP2.5 and AP3 computers appear to be different from the Model S/X versions - water cooled, where the S/X version is air cooled. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Of course, there are also natively AP3 cars - that's the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months, S/X and 3 both.

Actually there are HW1.5 vehicles or I seem to remember them.

For a very brief amount of time Tesla shipped HW1 vehicles with more than one forward facing camera.

Hence the HW1.5 cars.

Or maybe it was just the housing that had room for two cameras, and no actual Model X's actually got shipped with them.

Tesla Model X delivered with dual front-facing camera housing hinting at Autopilot 2.0 - Electrek

 

[electronblue]

What?

The only thing the OP said was there were HW3 Model 3's, and that's correct.

Sure we know that Tesla did some weird thing where they started to ship Model 3's with HW3, but then went back to shipping Model 3's with HW2.5 for a brief amount of time.

But, that doesn't impact what the OP said.

Is Saghost on your ignore list or did you not read the quote I replied to?

Saghost: ”Of course, there are also natively AP3 cars - that's the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months, S/X and 3 both.”

No, it is not the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months.

Just a specific correction, not a very big point.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Is Saghost on your ignore list or did you not read the quote I replied to?

Saghost: ”Of course, there are also natively AP3 cars - that's the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months, S/X and 3 both.”

No, it is not the only thing Tesla has built in the last six months.

Just a specific correction, not a very big point.

Nah, I just read it too quickly and missed the 6 month part so I deleted my post.

You were just too quick.

 

[Saghost]

Actually there are HW1.5 vehicles or I seem to remember them.

For a very brief amount of time Tesla shipped HW1 vehicles with more than one forward facing camera.

Hence the HW1.5 cars.

Or maybe it was just the housing that had room for two cameras, and no actual Model X's actually got shipped with them.

Tesla Model X delivered with dual front-facing camera housing hinting at Autopilot 2.0 - Electrek

Yup. Every Model X has the same size housing they still use today, and all the AP1 cars were wired for dual cameras, but what ended up installed in them was a single camera hooked to the same chip as other AP1 cars, though I believe on the S the Mobileye chip was in the mirror housing and on the X it was located remotely.

 

[Watts_Up]

This thread is specifically about HW3 so I don't think there should be a different thread depending on a persons upgrade path.

I think some updates already started?
The Model S or X and the Model 3 don't share the same hardware computer.
I beleive only some Model 3 have been updated, and then rooled back...
Any way I was thinking that any actual performed update should clearly indicate which Tesla Model they are associated with.

 

[scottf200]

Slightly off topic but recently (3ish weeks ago), TeslaFI had it's users self-identify what AP hardware they were on. Apparently Tesla's API stopped returning that information on some calls. Wonder why they(Tesla) would do that. Maybe there is a thread I missed on all this.

UPDATE: I just found the TeslaFI help/support related doc that explains.

 

[tyson]

I think some updates already started?
The Model S or X and the Model 3 don't share the same hardware computer.
I beleive only some Model 3 have been updated, and then rooled back...
Any way I was thinking that any actual performed update should clearly indicate which Tesla Model they are associated with.

Well, yes and no... The S and X with MCU2 do share the same hardware, it's just packaged differently. In the Model 3 the MCU and APE are sandwiched together with a cold plate in between them that provides the liquid cooling for both computers. In the S and X the MCU is part of the central display unit and the APE is contained separately behind the glove box. Both are air cooled in S and X. There have been reports around the forums of a few S and X getting HW3 APE upgrades but all were west coast and I believe all were newer models with MCU2.

 

[BigD0g]

Well, yes and no... The S and X with MCU2 do share the same hardware, it's just packaged differently. In the Model 3 the MCU and APE are sandwiched together with a cold plate in between them that provides the liquid cooling for both computers. In the S and X the MCU is part of the central display unit and the APE is contained separately behind the glove box. Both are air cooled in S and X. There have been reports around the forums of a few S and X getting HW3 APE upgrades but all were west coast and I believe all were newer models with MCU2.

Correct, they were all MCU2, at least so far.

 

[joefee]

When reading those comments, I wonder if there should be two separate threads between the Model S or X, and the Model 3,
because I believe that they don't share the same computers?

It's my assumption that the Model 3 has only the HW2.5 hardware while the Model S or X might have HW1.0, 1.5, 2.0, or 2.5?

So the above possible refund would only be associated with the Model S or X?

Or may be it would help when someone make a comment, to indicate which model and hw version they are taking about,
such as 2017 Model S Hw 2.0 or 2018 Model 3 Hw 2.5?

Here is an upgrade status Poll for FSD: HW3 upgrade waiting room: All FSD Tesla’s

 

[joefee]

For those who have responded, please don't forget to update your Poll status if you did get the HW3 upgrade: HW3 upgrade waiting room: All FSD Tesla’s

 

[daver3]

What I’ve noticed is that the v10 update did improve a lot of the autopilot image functionality with better lane lines and traffic images. A few things I have also noticed:

1) there is significant lag when an image (car/truck/motorcycle) goes from one camera field to another (e.g. moving slowly next to the vehicle). It flickers one then the other position and dances a little bit (not as bad as prior to v10).

2) EVERY time I have been using Autopilot and it starts to rain hard, all the functionality of Autopilot goes away with a warning the lane departure is inactive and canceling the Autosteer. This is a serious and significant downfall of camera based navigation that doesn’t happen with radar or lidar. I really don’t see any future in solving this problem with just image cameras unless there some additional imaging technologies.

I have driven successfully in fairly heavy rain using autopilot, but I did have a problem with snow and salt blocking the sensors.