You've done nothing wrong. You held up your end of the bargain. If they don't hold up there's then that's on them.
This is America God Damnit!. If a product sucks then we're entitled to a refund!
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Vendor Tesla Model S Battery Extended Service Plans from 057 Technology
- Thread starter wk057
- Start date
This is America God Damnit!. If a product sucks then we're entitled to a refund!
Some time based contractual stuff was confirmed no longer enforceable after the new year.
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To the extended service plan folks, a few things:
First off, 057 never sold "warranties". There's a huge difference between a warranty and a service plan. Service plans are backed by the company offering them, and nothing more. Warranties have a whole different thing, generally associated with a product produced by the company. 057 never built Tesla vehicles or the battery packs being serviced, and therefore had no obligation to warranty them. The service plan terms were spelled out quite clearly.
Next, I honestly don't know the status of anyone's service plans, or even the exact status of the company itself as of today. I don't have access to any of that anymore. By the time I left, we'd done a LOT of service plan based pack repairs and replacements to-date. A lot. As in, at least one or so a week since the beginning of the program. It was a barely profitable program at that point, but still not a loss for the company. A lot of progress was made to keep costs down and service smooth, and that was a stated goal at the time of the business sale. I'd call it a successful program. We helped a LOT of Tesla owners. There was no one unhandled in the service queue when I left, and I heard from a handful of people since then (via Twitter, mainly) that they'd worked with 057 on a replacement in the summer, despite customer service being sub-par overall. Believe it or not, the bulk of 057 customers, including service plan folks, did not come from TMC or had even heard of it.
If you have a service plan, and have a battery issue, then contact 057. Aside from that, I'm not really sure what to tell anyone. While I'm sorry if anyone feels negatively about it at this point, there's really nothing I can personally do about it. When I left 057, they had all of the tech, tools, and information needed to continue doing everything that was being done without me being involved anymore. In fact, I'd been working pretty hard to not be as hands on shop wise for quite some time even prior to the ownership change, since I wanted to focus on development and engineering tasks more than busy work in the shop. So training the crew to handle the bulk of things needed without my direct involvement was happening for quite a while.
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Finally... let me be completely clear on this: It's really no one's business whatsoever that I sold the company, or why I left. The details of that are between me, the buyers, the IRS, God, and probably my wife. I've no obligation whatsoever to provide any information at all about this, publicly or otherwise. At the same time, I'm also not an a******, and I'm not great at sitting back and letting ridiculous unfounded accusations fly unchallenged.
Why did I sell the company? Because at the time it seemed like the best way to jump start production of products I saw as needed for long term success: The custom battery pack, custom BMS, custom infotainment, etc etc. Tons of projects that take a ton of dev time I simply did not have while handling the day to day happenings of running a company. The company had some debt related to these projects already, so it was silly to abandon them, but also not practical to do much with them while I had zero time. The main buyer was a long time customer, and eventual friend. He'd used 057 products, my help, etc to do several EV projects already. The entire concept of the sale kind of came out of no where, and before you know it there were others involved, a partnership formed, details worked out, and paperwork being signed. All positive things. I'd never actually paid myself a salary from the company, either, so some reliable steady income from a multi-year employment contract was a welcome change. I was putting everything into 057 and then some.
Things went fine for a bit. I got back to nearly full time development work while others handled all of the day to day stuff.
Why did I leave? Eventually there was a bit of unexpected friction internally, and suffice it to say some decisions were made by the new owners that I didn't agree with.... and I'm not one to be silent about disagreements. I pissed off one of the partners pretty badly with my vocal objections. There was no way to reconcile that disagreement, and so I left and my employment contract was broken as a result (and at a significant effective penalty to me for doing so). Nothing with that disagreement involved anything along the lines of anything that would screw over customers or anything shady or otherwise dubious in that regard, nothing illegal, etc... so don't take that the wrong way. This was a personal decision made on principle, and I'm going to leave it at that.
As I said, I did not come out ahead on this whole deal. Anyone thinking I'm living high on the hog after this is quite mistaken. I consider the monetary losses on my part to be acceptable, though, to regain my work life balance and overall sanity. Frankly, this whole situation has set me back significantly... and probably significantly more than if I just hadn't sold and subsequently left the company. It's going to take me quite some time to recover. I don't say this for pity or anything. I'm doing OK. Not starving, etc. For perspective, I will likely be selling both my personal S and X vehicles soon specifically to pay down some debt and take some pressure off my finances. Will probably just share the Model 3 with my wife for a while since I work from home now and don't regularly need a vehicle daily anymore anyway.
I mainly want to dispel the narrative that I somehow walked away from all of this with a ton of money and left a bunch of customers behind screwed. That never happened, nor would I ever even had considered such a thing.
What? yep, I paid NOT 057 for my battery, the shop contacted him as they had a relationship with him.
(a few years ago. Don’t get more entitled…)
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
If you’ve had essentially nothing to do with this company since “summer,” why did you post as recently as November offering what was presented as definitive info from internal systems and continuing to represent yourself as an affiliate of the company (if not the outright owner)? Similar posts in October as well.
Not that it matters, at this point lessons have been learned and checks have been cashed all around - buyers, sellers, and customers alike… but you had to have known you were leading people to believe you still had “skin in the game,” as you put it, until very recently. People in this thread are saying as much - that they based purchase decisions well into 2023 on your personal reputation and association with the company. Hard for me to believe that everyone involved didn’t know those material facts - that “057” and “Jason Hughes” were the same brand for all intents and purposes and that perception had to remain for the business to have value. Can’t imagine any other plausible reason for such a hush-hush cloak and dagger contract.
A sad and unfortunate final chapter all around.
Not that it matters, at this point lessons have been learned and checks have been cashed all around - buyers, sellers, and customers alike… but you had to have known you were leading people to believe you still had “skin in the game,” as you put it, until very recently. People in this thread are saying as much - that they based purchase decisions well into 2023 on your personal reputation and association with the company. Hard for me to believe that everyone involved didn’t know those material facts - that “057” and “Jason Hughes” were the same brand for all intents and purposes and that perception had to remain for the business to have value. Can’t imagine any other plausible reason for such a hush-hush cloak and dagger contract.
A sad and unfortunate final chapter all around.
So i still have a battery service plan, not totally screwed, and 057 still exists.
From the original post from a new account -since deleted or banned- on another thread last fall asking where you were until midnight january 5th, NOBODY had a definitive answer to ALL of the above and were left to assume a screwjob by someone. So thank for you finally clearing that up.
The fact that the new owners didn't just come out and say this when bad speculation started doesn't give me warm feelings about having to try and deal with them should the need arise. But that's on them.
I am still concerned about paying to tow my car to NC only to have 057 say this is not an issue we covered you for, when I and I assume most others did not receive the battery monitoring device. With BMD in hand that would have at least saved me thousands in round trip towing when I could have been given bad news remotely. But again I hope I never need to find out. And that other thread showed the shop abandoned/for lease so who knows what state I am to send the car to, but it's likely farther and more expensive than when I signed up. For others it will be closer.
From the original post from a new account -since deleted or banned- on another thread last fall asking where you were until midnight january 5th, NOBODY had a definitive answer to ALL of the above and were left to assume a screwjob by someone. So thank for you finally clearing that up.
The fact that the new owners didn't just come out and say this when bad speculation started doesn't give me warm feelings about having to try and deal with them should the need arise. But that's on them.
I am still concerned about paying to tow my car to NC only to have 057 say this is not an issue we covered you for, when I and I assume most others did not receive the battery monitoring device. With BMD in hand that would have at least saved me thousands in round trip towing when I could have been given bad news remotely. But again I hope I never need to find out. And that other thread showed the shop abandoned/for lease so who knows what state I am to send the car to, but it's likely farther and more expensive than when I signed up. For others it will be closer.
BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
As a result of this, my 3 is likely to be my last Tesla. Building throwaway vehicles is not doing anything good for the environment, only serving to line EM's pockets. I know a lot of people here don't like GM but I think their Ultium platform is being designed with serviceability (and therefore more environmental responsibility) in mind. Unlike the "encase everything in concrete" structural battery packs.
Although I never used your services and sold my P85DL back in 2021, there is IMO a huge loss to the Tesla community at large here.
Exactly my point, restructure, grow slowly and be more organized.
Name 4 businesses that can do competent EV repairs on the level that Jason could do here in the U.S. Name 2 companies that could do a 100-kw battery pack swap into other Teslas that can with smaller kwh battery packs.
It is very easy to get discouraged and I understand Jason's reasoning for walking away but, I also understand that it is a talent wasted if he does.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Nothing last forever, circumstances and interests change, you are free to make the choice that best fits for you and your family. It's not unimaginable that the new company wants to keep the same name and especially not wanting to disclose a departure of a key talent.
I have met quite a few talented small business owners, great at what they do, good reputations but at some point they decided to sell the business and move on. Customers always know the service side of it but the amount of works, time, and sacrifices behind often not known to others. Good luck with your new adventure and hope everything works out for you and your family.
zoomer0056
Active Member
How can that be. Both scary Mary and Biden say GM is the EV leader
Keep in mind this account was a paid vendor account (ie, company account of 057 Tech) up until only a couple of weeks ago when I discussed the situation a bit with TMC admins. I won't get into the exact details of the arrangement on this.
Again, where I work, what companies I run or don't run, etc is really none of anyone's business. I could have just as well decided to never post on TMC again at all, but I'd like to think I've got a little bit of insight that'll be useful here for years to come.
This is the part I feel everyone is missing.
This comes from a mindset that remains static to the new possibilities to come.
The reality is that EVERYTHING has a lifespan.
As vehicle manufacturing becomes far, far more efficient in the years ahead, the concept of repair becomes far less important in comparison to the many benefits of structural battery packs, etc.
Likewise, battery packs will be recycled by grinding them up and re-using the materials--they will not be recycled by humans taking them apart.
Technology and life change and I hope you'll come along for the ride vs. riding a high horse to nowhere . . . .
brainhouston
Active Member
I bet it was BMS reset or cell/module swaps
Honestly, i don't think Tesla community loosing much
Plenty of shops/DYIers that doing same repair/upgrades by now, just look at FB 029 group
Maybe there's some extra details wk knows but Tesla constantly upgrades/updates things so probably gonna be obsolete soon anyways...
CrankyGypsy
Member
Unfortunately, you're going to have to take some lumps while you very slowly shine light on the darkness for the rest of us. That's life and I commend you for sticking your neck back out. I want you to stick around.
On the other side of the coin, I can tell you're a savvy guy that is very articulate and careful. So I know you didn't get duped into a garbage contract. And with you still unwilling/unable to share possibly confidential information - I'm frustrated that no one can tell any of us if 057 can service a car today or not - you're going to hear a lot of griping. The reasons sound justified for your decision, but you walked away last summer and no one knew.
Do you deserve ridicule? Almost certainly not. However, when I came to terms with the possibility of my car bricking last May, I considered selling it. But due to your reputation, and days of contemplating, I purchased your service plan instead, only for it to not exist a few months later. I was ignorantly cruising around, naively believing I didn't have to worry anymore. Then yesterday, I find out via a FB post that I should've sold my car instead of investing in your dream. You and I basically placed a gentleman's bet - maybe you'd keep the money for free or maybe I'd get a discounted repair. And yes, you tried to guarantee that bet with the new owners, but I was never privileged to the changes ... at least not until eight months later. That's what I'm upset about.
I'll get over it. We'll all get over it. Obviously, I have fresh wounds and mixed feelings I'm trying to work through, where you've had months. I'm glad you're here taking the lumps until it's all sorted out. We just need to grieve/gripe bc none of us have any real answers. Thank you.
As an outsider, based on my readings going back to early last year this seems clear - Owners paid for "service plan" but either never got Battery Management Devices from 057 (thereby 057 not fullfilling their end of the contract) or promised refund checks were not delivered by 057. That was when Mr. Hughes still owned the company and continues post Mr. Hughes's ownership.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I still remember the days when TV and electronics repair were a thriving business. However, TVs got so inexpensive that it no longer made sense to repair for most cases, especially as the tech rapidly improved (so for the same or less cost, you can get a better TV by the time your old one fails).
I think the affordability and general reliability of the Model 3/Y (as a ratio of vehicle population even of the same age, it seems they had far less problems the S/X did) is very much driven by a more integrated pack design.
I was just watching the whole Hyundai pack cost controversy where it costs $59k CAD (~$44k USD), with someone in the thread I found finding a discounted cost of $44k CAD (~$33k USD), so perhaps some of that is margin.
The Model 3 pack instead costs ~$14k.
How much does a Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost? | Current Automotive
A real work invoice shows just how much it costs to replace a Tesla Model 3 battery pack out-of-pocket. Plus, how does Tesla supply replacement packs?
www.currentautomotive.com
It appears if you see the internals, the Hyundai/Kia pack is more modular and likely can be repaired in a modular way, but they probably do not have the resources to train enough dealers to do those repairs/diagnosis, which is probably why the dealers default to replacing the whole pack.
As you know, your last sentence also applies to Tesla - current Tesla Service Center HV repair policy is to replace entire pack and send failed pack back to Lathrop for reman or recycle.Yeah, I still remember the days when TV and electronics repair were a thriving business. However, TVs got so inexpensive that it no longer made sense to repair for most cases, especially as the tech rapidly improved (so for the same or less cost, you can get a better TV by the time your old one fails).
I think the affordability and general reliability of the Model 3/Y (as a ratio of vehicle population even of the same age, it seems they had far less problems the S/X did) is very much driven by a more integrated pack design.
I was just watching the whole Hyundai pack cost controversy where it costs $59k CAD (~$44k USD), with someone in the thread I found finding a discounted cost of $44k CAD (~$33k USD), so perhaps some of that is margin.
The Model 3 pack instead costs ~$14k.
How much does a Tesla Model 3 Battery Replacement Cost? | Current Automotive
A real work invoice shows just how much it costs to replace a Tesla Model 3 battery pack out-of-pocket. Plus, how does Tesla supply replacement packs?
It appears if you see the internals, the Hyundai/Kia pack is more modular and likely can be repaired in a modular way, but they probably do not have the resources to train enough dealers to do those repairs/diagnosis, which is probably why the dealers default to replacing the whole pack.
brainhouston
Active Member
which is still pretty silly to pay when used packs from low mileage cars floating around on eBay as low as 4k
i'd take my chances with that n i have 3 tries to test my luck lol
not to mention u get to keep ur old one this way n either sell it or turn it into backup/solar setup...
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