Tesla Model S CPO Website - Now Live

[dhanson865]

None of this is new. Compare a slightly used Mercedes S-class to a new C-class, or a used BMW 7-Series to a new 3-Series.

None of what is new?

Since when do those cars have the tech a Tesla has?

 

[clarkbariowa]

New CPO - might be unlisted still.

I’ve got a very clean, 2014 60kWh Model S, White, Panoramic Roof, 19” wheels, Textile Seats, Piano Black Décor, AutoPilot, Tech Package, Ultra HiFi Sound.

12100 miles. Fully Certified and Priced at $58500!

Brent Seavey | Pre-Owned Sales Advisor, Midwest
1200 Old Skokie Valley Rd | Highland Park, IL 60035
p 847-579-0028 | m 630-849-4233 | [email protected]

 

[bigbear]

New CPO - might be unlisted still.

I’ve got a very clean, 2014 60kWh Model S, White, Panoramic Roof, 19” wheels, Textile Seats, Piano Black Décor, AutoPilot, Tech Package, Ultra HiFi Sound.

12100 miles. Fully Certified and Priced at $58500!

Brent Seavey | Pre-Owned Sales Advisor, Midwest
1200 Old Skokie Valley Rd | Highland Park, IL 60035
p 847-579-0028 | m 630-849-4233 | [email protected]

I wonder if they have any cpo's that are just clean, not very clean.

When this does hit the cpo site, will it be more?

 

[hashraf]

I disagree.

I 2018 Model 3 will have newer tech. Elon says 5% or more improvement per year in battery tech. It'll weigh 20% less so a smaller battery will take it just as far and accelerate faster for the same motor power / torque.

I think you'll find for those reasons a 2018 Model 3 will trounce a 2015 model S in most stats. Enough so that quite a few Model S owners will trade in creating a greater supply pushing down Model S prices (at least the older Model S years).

A 2106 or 2017 Model S might compare better to a 2018 Model 3 but it still won't be a clean sweep. The smaller size/weight of the 3 will be a plus for many buyers (parking space/garage size, inner city driving, European old cities).

I'll agree it is a different market segment but I think some of the advantages of the Model 3 will pull people away from the Model S even if the price tag is lower.

If what you are telling me turns out to be true, all ICE manufacturers are hosed...atleast cars which are in 30K to 70K range will stop selling and everyone will want to buy tesla 3. Since a $35K Tesla will perform as well as a 60-65K ICE car.

 

[2krazykats]

All of my concerns have been addressed. Tesla and I disagreed on one thing, but it has been addressed at this point and I'm just moving on. My car has been amazing and my local service center is still fantastic. They've had to tweak a few things on my car and it has been continued to be a stellar experience to work with them.

Glad to hear you've resolved the issues to some level of satisfaction. It does make me feel better that Tesla did what they could to resolve issues for you. Enjoy the ride!

- - - Updated - - -

@clarkbariowa, does Brent work with people outside of Iowa as well?

 

[Cyclone]

None of what is new?

Since when do those cars have the tech a Tesla has?

The argument over the used "top of the line" model of a make vs. new "cheaper" mode of the same make. The tech the car doesn't matter as it there different in tech between the MB S and C or BMW 7 and 3 is likely similar to the different in tech between the Tesla S and 3.

 

[SmartElectric]

I think you'll find for those reasons a 2018 Model 3 will trounce a 2015 model S in most stats. Enough so that quite a few Model S owners will trade in creating a greater supply pushing down Model S prices (at least the older Model S years)

Maybe, maybe not. For us, size matters. A smaller car wouldn't appeal, we already have a Smart ED for zipping around town, the Tesla is our road trip car, and for that use, bigger is better.

 

[taurusking]

Maybe, maybe not. For us, size matters. A smaller car wouldn't appeal, we already have a Smart ED for zipping around town, the Tesla is our road trip car, and for that use, bigger is better.

I agree size does matter...but would you prefer to drive non auto pilot Model S with 85kWh battery or 100kWh (possibly) battery high end Model 3 with all updated features and autopilot ?

I agree with dhanson865....

 

[Cowby]

I agree size does matter...but would you prefer to drive non auto pilot Model S with 85kWh battery or 100kWh (possibly) battery high end Model 3 with all updated features and autopilot ?.

Some freebie analysis, take it for what u will....Me thinks u r fantasizing a bit if u think the model 3 will ever have a higher battery capacity than the MS will (much less the same size)....maybe they will let it catch up and be like a 60kWh size, but no way till at least 3-5 yrs after production...y u say? 1) Different market segment. 2) Because it would canabalize MS sales. 3) Pissing off current MS owners not a good idea, many of whom will likely be the first to buy the model 3 as their second car........And by that time, tesla will have figured out how to make it advantageous to do battery swapping for the current MS owners....so we'd likely get the benefit of the future 100 (or higher) battery capacities first given Gigafactory coming online in a few years...or so that's my guess...lol...ok bye now.

 

[dhanson865]

I agree size does matter...but would you prefer to drive non auto pilot Model S with 85kWh battery or 100kWh (possibly) battery high end Model 3 with all updated features and autopilot ?

I agree with dhanson865....

Some freebie analysis, take it for what u will....Me thinks u r fantasizing a bit if u think the model 3 will ever have a higher battery capacity than the MS will (much less the same size)....maybe they will let it catch up and be like a 60kWh size, but no way till at least 3-5 yrs after production...y u say? 1) Different market segment. 2) Because it would canabalize MS sales. 3) Pissing off current MS owners not a good idea, many of whom will likely be the first to buy the model 3 as their second car........And by that time, tesla will have figured out how to make it advantageous to do battery swapping for the current MS owners....so we'd likely get the benefit of the future 100 (or higher) battery capacities first given Gigafactory coming online in a few years...or so that's my guess...lol...ok bye now.

Cowby I think you are right that taursking misspoke about a 100 kwh battery in the Model 3, see below for my expected sizes.

1. a new Model S will always have the same or higher capacity battery as the top option than a model 3
2. a used Model S can pay some outrageous price to upgrade the battery pack to the new version no matter what year it is
3. if the upgrade price isn't a preferred option someone will always have the option of trading up to a newer Model S instead of upgrading the older Model S. This will have a cost also.

But ignoring upgrades of existing cars you have the situation where (Model S options by year - a running history - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum)

2012 -2015 (pre April 2105) Model S only had 60 kwh and 85 kwh options
April 2015 to current adds 70 kwh and 90 kwh for Model S (90 kwh confirmed for Model X, unknown when a lower capacity will be added)

now lets extrapolate a little

Say in 2016 we gain a 75 kwh for Model X and Model S and a 95 kwh for both as well.
Say in 2017 Model S/X have a 80 kwh and 100 kwh
Say in 2018 Model S/X have a 85 kwh and 105 kwh

If the Model 3 has a 80% size and gets better efficiency from it then it gets similar range from an 80% sized battery. (you can argue that point in 300+ Mile Model 3?)

So say the 2018 Model 3 has a 85 kwh battery pack that gives it the same range as a Model S at 105 kwh and there is also a Model 3 with a 70 kwh battery pack that gives it similar range to a Model S with a 85 kWh battery pack.

You end up with CPO and used cars in buckets chronologically of

Model S60 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)
Model S85 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)

Model S60 with AP (late 2014)
Model S85 with AP (late 2014)

Model S70 (early 2015)
Model S90 (mid 2015)

Model S75 (2016)
Model S95 (2016)

Model S80 (2017)
Model S100 (2017)

Model 3 - 65 (range similar to a S80) - 2018 version
Model 3 - 80 (range similar to a S100) - 2018 version

Model S85 (2018 version)
Model S105 (2018)


I'll argue that much of the cost savings for Model 3 are in economies of scale and aren't just decontenting. A fully loaded Model 3 will be competitive to a comparably loaded Model S enough so that they'll be demand limited as usual.

I'm expecting the Model S of the second half of 2017 to have a equal pack in terms of range as a 2018 Model 3. I'm assuming the packs aren't interchangeable between S/X and 3 but are interchangeable between S and X.

So in 2018 I'm saying a new Model 3 will be a better car than a 2015 model S just because the motors/drive train components/fuses/inverters/charger/battery pack improvements will be significant and I don't think they'll decontent the interior enough to turn away people based on luxury.

I think this practically guaranteed improvement in range and component quality will be different enough from gas car improvements to make the S vs 3 comparison similar in 2018 vs 2018 but very different in comparing 2018 Model 3 to 2015 Model S.

And wrapping back around to CPO pricing I'd argue this guaranteed improvement will be an issue moreso for Model S to Model S over the years than for gas car 2012 vs gas car 2015 vs gas car 2018.

 

[bigbear]

1. a new Model S will always have the same or higher capacity battery as the top option than a model 3
2. a used Model S can pay some outrageous price to upgrade the battery pack to the new version no matter what year it is
3. if the upgrade price isn't a preferred option someone will always have the option of trading up to a newer Model S instead of upgrading the older Model S. This will have a cost also.

But ignoring upgrades of existing cars you have the situation where (Model S options by year - a running history - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum)

2012 -2015 (pre April 2105) Model S only had 60 kwh and 85 kwh options
April 2015 to current adds 70 kwh and 90 kwh for Model S (90 kwh confirmed for Model X, unknown when a lower capacity will be added)

now lets extrapolate a little

Say in 2016 we gain a 75 kwh for Model X and Model S and a 95 kwh for both as well.
Say in 2017 Model S/X have a 80 kwh and 100 kwh
Say in 2018 Model S/X have a 85 kwh and 105 kwh

If the Model 3 has a 80% size and gets better efficiency from it then it gets similar range from an 80% sized battery. (you can argue that point in 300+ Mile Model 3?)

So say the 2018 Model 3 has a 85 kwh battery pack that gives it the same range as a Model S at 105 kwh and there is also a Model 3 with a 70 kwh battery pack that gives it similar range to a Model S with a 85 kWh battery pack.

You end up with CPO and used cars in buckets chronologically of

Model S60 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)
Model S85 pre AP (2012 to early 2014)

Model S60 with AP (late 2014)
Model S85 with AP (late 2014)

Model S70 (early 2015)
Model S90 (mid 2015)

Model S75 (2016)
Model S95 (2016)

Model S80 (2017)
Model S100 (2017)

Model 3 - 65 (range similar to a S80) - 2018 version
Model 3 - 80 (range similar to a S100) - 2018 version

Model S85 (2018 version)
Model S105 (2018)


I'll argue that much of the cost savings for Model 3 are in economies of scale and aren't just decontenting. A fully loaded Model 3 will be competitive to a comparably loaded Model S enough so that they'll be demand limited as usual.

I'm expecting the Model S of the second half of 2017 to have a equal pack in terms of range as a 2018 Model 3. I'm assuming the packs aren't interchangeable between S/X and 3 but are interchangeable between S and X.

So in 2018 I'm saying a new Model 3 will be a better car than a 2015 model S just because the motors/drive train components/fuses/inverters/charger/battery pack improvements will be significant and I don't think they'll decontent the interior enough to turn away people based on luxury.

I think this practically guaranteed inprovement in range and component quality will be different enough from gas car improvements to make the S vs 3 comparison similar in 2018 vs 2018 but very different in comparing 2018 Model 3 to 2015 Model S.

Quite the breakdown, thank you. I'm debating a new 3 vs a used s and your breakdown makes it seem to me that a new 3 is the way to go except in terms of size which matters to me because I have a family of 5.

 

[Zybane]

You have to understand that though for $35-40K that the Model 3 is "suppose" to cost (laugh), you will not have a lot of Model S features. I highly doubt it would have the 17" screen. Or look anywhere near as good as the Model S or as fast. I expect something more along the lines of the Chevy Volt in size and shape. Just look how frumpy the Model X looks compared to the S, it will be interesting to see what the 3 look's like.

 

[dhanson865]

You have to understand that though for $35-40K that the Model 3 is "suppose" to cost (laugh), you will not have a lot of Model S features. I highly doubt it would have the 17" screen. Or look anywhere near as good as the Model S or as fast. I expect something more along the lines of the Chevy Volt in size and shape. Just look how frumpy the Model X looks compared to the S, it will be interesting to see what the 3 look's like.

You know the Roadster cost more than the Model S right? You know the Roadster has less features than the Model S right?

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors

shhhh don't tell anyone!

Seriously. Take a look at the battery upgrade for roadster 3.0. They are getting a battery pack hand assembled for similar pricing as a Model S pack upgrade (Tesla doing right by early adopters and selling at cost or at a loss?). The Model S pack is made with assembly line robots and done in medium size batches. Model 3 will be done with assembly line robots in larger batches. Economies of scale have a big effect on price of a product.

80% less material in the car * 10 times as many cars per year * a new battery plant that is reducing the cost of batteries to 70% of current costs per kWh = a serious cost reduction without any loss of features.

They may choose to offer different features between S and 3 for artificial segmentation purposes to justify the price premium on the S but I don't think you need to compare the 3 to a Chevy Volt in any way.

And the $35K version is to compete with the current S70 (rear motor only). I'm sure there will be a much higher cost if you put all the options on and have a Model 3 in the style of a P90D.

 

[Cyclone]

And similar to configuring the S, $35k will be the start price for textile seats, no air suspension, solid roof, standard wheels, no spoiler, no power liftgate, etc. The way I would want a 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it would run me $50k. But we shall see.

 

[dhanson865]

And similar to configuring the S, $35k will be the start price for textile seats, no air suspension, solid roof, standard wheels, no spoiler, no power liftgate, etc. The way I would want a 3, I wouldn't be surprised if it would run me $50k. But we shall see.

Personally I'm good with that.

Give me the smallest wheels possible so I can buy mainstream LRR tires.

I'll pay extra if not included for

Supercharging (likely included)
Autopilot
Blue paint

and I'll consider

subzero package (assuming it's like $750)
dual motors (depending on range and cost differences)
aero wheels (assuming I can get them on the lowest wheel size at a reasonable cost). I honestly don't care exactly what the aero wheels look like, so long as they are more closed than open I'd run them for the range difference and because I live in a humid area and don't want to show off rusty calipers.

I'm hoping Supercharging and Autopilot are rolled into the $35,000 by 2018 but I'm realistic that those are marketable items and they'll likely monetize them as optional on the base trim.

 

[Cyclone]

Dhanson865 and I are on the same. Which is why I'm surprised at some people gawking at $35k. A base model 70 kWh S can be had for $70k, but few want base options. But is there for those who want it. And for me, I wanted the larger size, but I had already planned on a roughly $50k 3 before I bought my S. All will be right with the word once deliveries start!

 

[Zybane]

You know the Roadster cost more than the Model S right? You know the Roadster has less features than the Model S right?

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors

shhhh don't tell anyone!

Seriously. Take a look at the battery upgrade for roadster 3.0. They are getting a battery pack hand assembled for similar pricing as a Model S pack upgrade (Tesla doing right by early adopters and selling at cost or at a loss?). The Model S pack is made with assembly line robots and done in medium size batches. Model 3 will be done with assembly line robots in larger batches. Economies of scale have a big effect on price of a product.

80% less material in the car * 10 times as many cars per year * a new battery plant that is reducing the cost of batteries to 70% of current costs per kWh = a serious cost reduction without any loss of features.

They may choose to offer different features between S and 3 for artificial segmentation purposes to justify the price premium on the S but I don't think you need to compare the 3 to a Chevy Volt in any way.

And the $35K version is to compete with the current S70 (rear motor only). I'm sure there will be a much higher cost if you put all the options on and have a Model 3 in the style of a P90D.

Well obviously economies of scale make a large difference, but $35K isn't a lot of money. Heck, today a small 80 mile range city car i3 cost $50K. If they do make a $35K Model 3, I bet it would be so stripped down/low range that hardly anyone would want it. Expect most models to sell for $50K+ IMO. Not even taking into consideration inflation alone by the time the 3 launches could be 6+%. Also, Tesla is going to have to make a profit sometime in the companies future..

 

[MsElectric]

I find it really odd to see CPO P85Ds for sale without the Tech Package. It seems the Tech Package is a basic prerequisite for the Model S though it is certainly fine without it. I'm just having a hard time imagining many people being open to buying a $100K used car without all the niceties that come with the Tech Package. There are currently 3 P85Ds for sale without the Tech Package...

http://www.teslamotors.com/models/preowned/088548

Are these cars lacking the Tech Package or is it that they were made after the Tech Package was discontinued and a bunch of some of the formerly Tech Package options became standard equipment. I wonder if there is an easy way to tell from a car listing if a car is lacking the Tech Package or the car was built after most of the Tech Package options became standard.

The following is what is now standard and a bunch of these options used to come with the Tech Package at extra cost.

Free long distance travel on the Supercharger network
Maps and navigation with real time traffic updates
8 year, infinite mile battery and drive unit warranty
Automatic keyless entry
Daytime running lights
GPS enabled Homelink
Parking sensors
Blind spot warning
Lane departure warning
Power-folding and heated side mirrors
Automatic emergency braking

 

[HankLloydRight]

A lot of new cars being added today.

 

[FlatSix911]

You know the Roadster cost more than the Model S right? You know the Roadster has less features than the Model S right?

The Secret Tesla Motors Master Plan (just between you and me) | Tesla Motors

shhhh don't tell anyone!

So, in short, the master plan is:

1. Build sports car
2. Use that money to build an affordable car
3. Use that money to build an even more affordable car
4. While doing above, also provide zero emission electric power generation options

Don't tell anyone.