Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Tesla push in NJ for more stores. Currently limited to 4 and in many cases overloaded.

For those in NJ you can send in a letter.

Support TESLA in New Jersey

Tesla has built the 5th store. Quite large and appears it could open in weeks if given the go ahead.

Bill could help Tesla expand number of dealerships in N.J. - ROI-NJ

Tesla is building its biggest N.J. facility. If it is allowed to open remains to be seen - ROI-NJ
Done. Paramus is getting ridiculous
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Artful Dodger
AFAIK, the individual SEC prosecutors are inherently immune from damages. But the SEC itself is not.

Check out sovereign immunity (aka Rex Non Potest Peccare) There are limited waivers of immunity under the Federal Tort Claims Act but the Discretionary Function Exception, Discretionary Function Immunity, essentially eviscerates that route.
 
I've been wondering how the shorts fund the FUD, maybe a segment like this would explain:

:
It's a joke, a jibe, a jape, satire,... :cool:

After all our banking system would make sure there is plenty of collateral to cover potentially many tens of billions of dollars in losses, right?

Right?!?? :eek:
 
Last edited:
Yeah, still sitting on the puts I sold post funding secured tweet. So no, despite all my love for Elon he is just not helping me financially. Think I have company.
I
Chicago Tribune - 2 hours ago: Fiat Chrysler laying off more than 1,300 workers at Belvidere Jeep plant

Belvidere is 25 miles northwest of me, and I'm 50 miles northwest of Chicago. If this plant eventually shuts down completely, it may present an opportunity for Tesla.
Not if those workers are union. IMO
 
Musk was misled by the Saudis last time, who were bragging about how much money they had but didn't actually have as much money as they said they did. That won't happen again.

Source for that claim?

I suppose it's mostly an educated guess by @neroden, but there's some circumstantial evidence that in the relevant 2017-2018 time frame the Saudis PIF did project much more wealth than they actually had available and liquid:


Which doesn't mean the Saudis couldn't have done it if they really wanted to. In any case Tesla dodged a bullet there - and we kind of of have to thank the shortz and the SEC for that. (Of course they did it because they wanted to hurt Tesla that was the most vulnerable in mid-2018.)
 
Was just about to post that, quite strange

TEsla-Model-X-after-fire.jpg

They were testing AP 3.5, it heard about the SEC filing and killed itself.
 
Was just about to post that, quite strange

TEsla-Model-X-after-fire.jpg
Am I really the only one who thinks that photo is fake? For one thing, how did the alloy wheels manage to survive such a hot fire with the rubber still attached and the wheels unmelted or burned (remember, alloy wheels are flammable...). How come there's a gray one in front and a silver one in back? How come the wheels are above the level of the ice when the rest of the vehicle has sunk into the ice? And given the way lithium batteries burn how does ANY of it remain above the ice?
 
In NIO's prospectus, they claim that their batteries are more efficient than Tesla's.

They also claim 3 OTHER Chinese car companies have more efficient cells than Tesla.

My guess is most people here will not agree, but I'd love to hear an honest discussion about this.

For years, Tesla has claimed the most efficient batteries, this seems to contradict that claim in a big way.View attachment 380686

Know someone who got to ride in one and talk to owner. Batteries are not better than Tesla’s per the owner.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: wipster
Am I really the only one who thinks that photo is fake? For one thing, how did the alloy wheels manage to survive such a hot fire with the rubber still attached and the wheels unmelted or burned (remember, alloy wheels are flammable...). How come there's a gray one in front and a silver one in back? How come the wheels are above the level of the ice when the rest of the vehicle has sunk into the ice? And given the way lithium batteries burn how does ANY of it remain above the ice?
Heat rises, the bottom of the battery pack is the thickest part, the ice is likely quite thick, wheels are farthest away from the fire, different colors could be that one of them had the paint burned off, I'm not seeing much rubber on the wheels, could be mostly steel cords. Seems plausibly real to me.
 
So I've gone through the SEC's "Motion and memorandum of law in support of an order to show cause" filing:


I got the following impression:
  • Firstly, the filing tries to make the argument that the settlement does not allow 'inaccurate' information to be disseminated by Tesla:
    • "Specifically, the terms of the SEC’s settlements with both Musk and Tesla were designed to prevent Musk from disseminating misleading or inaccurate information via Twitter or other means in the future."
  • Note how they slip in the "inaccurate" qualifier which word is not present in the settlement, via the "designed to", and combine it with "misleading" to make it less obvious what they are doing there.
  • Forward looking statements are, by their very nature, "inaccurate". Projections are going to be missed all the time. The real question is whether Tesla agrees to Elon publishing material non-public information - and apparently they do and did, and the SEC doesn't allege otherwise (!).
  • The SEC instead is trying to make the argument that Elon's tweet was "inaccurate", which is a ridiculous characterization by the literal meaning of the tweet:
    • “Tesla made 0 cars in 2011, but will make around 500k in 2019.”
  • The "around" qualifier and the very plain round number with 5 zeroes at the end makes it "inaccurate" by definition.
  • But "a" 500k number is given in the Q4 conference call via the 350k-500k Model 3 deliveries estimate - which the SEC's filing doesn't mention at all. With S/X production added on top Elon's tweet is well within this range.
  • Elon's second tweet further limits and clarifies it to the 400k deliveries and "500k annualized production" wording - but I think what matters is whether the information in the first tweet was approved by Tesla already and made public, and I believe it was.
Note that even if there's inaccuracy and conflict between these various delivery and production numbers, that's the nature of them and of predictions. Somewhat counter-intuitively it's also not against the law to have internal conflict in guidance figures as long as it's unintentional - it happens all the time and is corrected typically.

The question isn't the accuracy, which we don't even know yet before 2019 ends, but whether it was material non-public information - which I believe it wasn't.

The SEC's case law citations look weak as well. For example their 'not willful violation' citation is:


But that case dependent on the defendant having admitted a no-willful violation. Elon and Tesla admits no such thing, that there's an admission is entirely the SEC's construction, based on the second tweet:

“Meant to say annualized production rate at end of 2019 probably around 500k, ie 10k cars/week. Deliveries for year still estimated to be about 400k”​

They are construing the "meant to say" as an admission of non-willful violation, while I think the more reasonable reading is that it's a clarification of the very broad guided range and offset between of deliveries vs. production, plus a nailing down of the broader 500k range to an exit rate of 10k/week cars at the end of 2019, with about 400k deliveries - which is still within the guided 350k-500k Model 3 + 75k Model S/X production and delivery numbers.

But I think the more important point is that both tweets are inaccurate numerically, by their nature and by literal construction, and both are within previously disclosed ranges, i.e. not material non-public information.

Also, note that the SEC did not ask the court to hold Elon in contempt, yet. They asked the court to order Elon to 'show cause' why he shouldn't be held in contempt - which order the court granted. If Elon's filing is adequate to the SEC, they might not ask for a contempt order. (It's unlikely I think, but it's a possible outcome.)
 
Last edited:
Just some info for your consideration. I have a great deal of experience in consent decrees and agreed orders. A consent decree has both attributes of a Court Order and a contract. It represents an agreement (contract) between the parties that is incorporated into a court order. Because it is a contract it can go beyond what the government can demand if the other party agrees. For example one case in which I was involved dealt with closing State institutions. The DOJ couldn't require the closure but the state agreed to do so. That agreement became enforceable through contempt.

Contempt can be civil or criminal. Here I expect that the SEC is taking the position that EM did not follow his agreement. I have never seen a contempt action brought on such insignificant technical basis. I would have feared being ridiculed for wasting the Court's time for bringing such an action. Again this is a contract. Is EM's tweet a material breach and what are the damages? I also wonder if in the contempt proceeding whether Tesla can find out who or what pushed the SEC's action. Regardless this is solely about the agreement and I can't help but believe that if it were a breach, that it was not material.