Why did Tesla remove option to disable regenerative braking?

[Tipjar]

I'm asking here instead of directly to Tesla because their only Contact Us options were for solar roofs or calling a store and neither of them knows....

While test driving the Model Y I noticed the regenerative braking was pretty aggressive. I called the sales person from the car to ask if I could adjust it. He explained that unfortunately Tesla removed the option to disable regenerative braking in the October 2020 software update, and suggested cheerfully that it's a driving experience drivers adapt to. (Some context here, I'm used to regenerative braking from my Prius of the past five years, but I like the freedom of easily toggling it on or off as needed, and its resistance is considerably milder than Tesla's.) I found Tesla's regenerative braking to be so strong it was similar to actively depressing a brake pedal half way to the floor when the foot wasn't on the accelerator. In my opinion it was a fatiguing nuisance having to stay on top of the accelerator all the time. I know you can engage cruise control as a workaround but cruise is only useful in certain conditions.

I went to an Earth Day fair a week later because many makes and models of EVs would be there and I wanted to hear pros and cons directly from owners. One Model Y owner said he'd always driven with regenerative braking at the maximum setting anyway so it didn't bother him, but he felt sure there was still a way to turn it off. Then a woman, intrigued by the topic, offered to take me on a test drive in her Model Y and go through all the settings for regenerative braking. We did and both agreed none of the settings made much difference. Then she confessed that she can't take her best friend around in her car because the regenerative braking gives her friend motion sickness, and that she'd heard similar stories from others. (But she was still crazy about her Model Y.)

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

 

[Woodpecker99]

My wife is very prone to motion sickness. She is no worse in the Tesla than in other cars (as a passenger) with full regen, "chill" and "roll" settings. Standard acceleration is....not good for her

Does chill mode slow the car down though?

 

[smogne41]

Does chill mode slow the car down though?

I don't believe so. My understanding (and my experience) is that the throttle positions still map to the same speeds. Chill just lowers the acceleration to get to those speeds by a bit. The car is still quick in chill, but it does take the edge off for passenger comfort.

 

[GtiMart]

Throttle positions never map to speeds. Throttle positions map to power outputs (similar to an ICE car). Tthe throttle goes from unpressed = full regen to fully pressed = all available power, with a certain response curve in between (e.g. not necessarily linear). Enabling chill mode reduces the max power to ~200hp and might change the response curve.
You can go as fast with chill mode in general, you just cannot accelerate as fast. You will be limited at top speed because you only have 200hp available.

 

[TravelFree]

What do you think Tesla's rationale is for removing the option of turning off regenerative braking, especially when it could limit their pool of consumers? It's a deal breaker for any buyer who has to consider how many kids/relatives, friends, business associates, or other unknown future passengers it might affect. My only thought has been maybe Tesla wants to pump up their range statistics and didn't realize that it could make some people ill or fatigued if they suffer from motion sickness or certain disabilities.

If you don't want the features in a Tesla, like OTA updates that changes things then don't buy a Tesla. There are many car features that limit the pool of consumers. No car manufacturer can please everyone. This is why you have options.

Specifically, Regenerative braking does improve efficiency of the EV. But as far as how it affects passengers, I have never noticed that. In fact, our passengers never know we are using it unless they look see the driver is not touching the brake to stop. When my wife first experienced Regen Braking with our old Nissan Leaf, she, like me had to learn how to use it. In a couple minutes of driving around town it became a natural and today neither of us want to return to the ancient way cars had to slow down and stop. We own modern cars for a reason even if that requires learning something new.

In old fashion cars everytime you got new brakes, you had to learn the feel of those new pads. Regeneration only requires learning the skill once. I have never noticed someone getting motion sickness from regenerative braking. This seems to me like you are looking to blame motion sickness on something to justify your complaint when the real problem is lack of driving skills with the Tesla's regen braking.

Aside from that, I'm bothered a seller can change something without my permission after I've paid for it.

You should learn to review the notes on updates. shut off "Advanced" and then stop updating your Tesla so it will remain vintage the way you are comfortable and then you won't have to learn something new. You bought a Tesla for a reason. OTA updates must have been one of those reasons. Fact is you did give permission to do the update. Even by taking your car to the Service Center you had to give permission. You just agreed and didn't know what you agreed to.

 

[GtiMart]

In this world of connected things, updates are inevitable. Your cell phone updates... Your tvs update. Bluetooth speakers need updates. A Tesla is a computer on wheels and needs updates too.
Now, it's up to each company to decide what updates contain. Security is always updated, new features are normally welcome. Changes to existing features get some pushback from users but, when done properly, end up being overall better. Sometimes they are necessary to integrate the new features.

Resistance to change is a common reflex, but you can try to look past that.

 

[drtimhill]

Specifically, Regenerative braking does improve efficiency of the EV. But as far as how it affects passengers, I have never noticed that. In fact, our passengers never know we are using it unless they look see the driver is not touching the brake to stop. When my wife first experienced Regen Braking with our old Nissan Leaf, she, like me had to learn how to use it. In a couple minutes of driving around town it became a natural and today neither of us want to return to the ancient way cars had to slow down and stop. We own modern cars for a reason even if that requires learning something new.

Exactly … I use full regen all the time, and no-one has ever even noticed the difference. I think people who are getting “woozy” with regen enabled are just not using it right. Properly used its imperceptible.

 

[WindPower]

When you first drive an EV with the method Tesla uses for regen, it takes some time (hours for me with my first EV, an i3, maybe days for others) to get the hang of feathering the pedal so that slow down is smooth. But once you get the hang of it, there is no reason a passenger will feel any difference between driving in a Tesla or driving in a conventional car. All it takes is for the driver to get some experience. I drive in snow and ice in the winter and there is no reason, once you get used to regen, for regen to handle any differently than mechanical brakes.

Regen simply makes sense: if a vehicle can generate its own power, why shouldn’t it? You might question the method or the strength of regen or the lack of regen strength settings, but regen itself shouldn’t be a yes or no. In an EV, it should always be there.

That said, it’s up to the software developers at Tesla to make sure that their regen curve (the rate at which the motor puts power back into the battery at a certain accelerator pedal lift) creates a safe and comfortable experience for drivers and passengers and if those curves need tweaking or additional curves added, they should be tweaked or added and made available to drivers. I’m happy with the Tesla regen curves in winter and summer, but others may not be and their needs should be considered.

 

[TravelFree]

I lived in upstate NY for over a decade so I know the techniques of braking in snow covered icy roads. How does one use regen braking in that condition? I used to use brake pumping to prevent out of control sliding. Does the Tesla regen traction control handle that? I may sometime need to know that if I have to drive in snow and ice again.

 

[GtiMart]

@TravelFree, I've answered this question a few times on the forum, see one of those answers on post #41 inside this thread.

 

[TravelFree]

@TravelFree, I've answered this question a few times on the forum, see one of those answers on post #41 inside this thread.

Thanks for the tips in that post.

 

[Woodpecker99]

I am 6 days in with the car and am really not liking the regenerative braking at all. Honestly if I knew I couldn't lower the setting I don't think I would of gotten the car at all. Not to mention all new drivers hate it as well. Kinda annoyed at myself for not knowing it was off the 2021 cars.

 

[electricloris]

At first I freaked out, but now me and my wife love it and when we drive the ice car it feels weird and too loose. I do notice regen feels the most annoying at low speeds if your not used to it, but at higher speeds with roll on its not as bad. I drive in Hold now, but did drive in Roll for a bit before finally preferring the precision of one peddle with hold. Id say give it some time to get used to. I was also a bit freaked out, but now I prefer it

 

[angus[Y]oung]

I am 6 days in with the car and am really not liking the regenerative braking at all. Honestly if I knew I couldn't lower the setting I don't think I would of gotten the car at all. Not to mention all new drivers hate it as well. Kinda annoyed at myself for not knowing it was off the 2021 cars.

@Woodpecker99 I found it a bit easier to learn how to modulate the throttle pedal at first by putting the car into Chill mode. Kept it that way for a few days before changing back to standard. I don't know that it actually modifies the regen but it felt less jerky to me while I learned how to back it off smoothly. This might be worth a try, if you haven't already.

 

[Yoliber]

@Woodpecker99 I found it a bit easier to learn how to modulate the throttle pedal at first by putting the car into Chill mode. Kept it that way for a few days before changing back to standard. I don't know that it actually modifies the regen but it felt less jerky to me while I learned how to back it off smoothly. This might be worth a try, if you haven't already.

All it does is change the acceleration/deceleration mapping. It makes it more linear so it's easier to control. I always drive in chill mode. I find that it makes me more chill as well.

 

[travispete]

I am 6 days in with the car and am really not liking the regenerative braking at all. Honestly if I knew I couldn't lower the setting I don't think I would of gotten the car at all. Not to mention all new drivers hate it as well. Kinda annoyed at myself for not knowing it was off the 2021 cars.

I’m in the exact same boat I had a 2018 M3 and loved that option. I would have bought used or kept my 3 had I known. If the tax credit comes through I might sell.

 

[Dennisis]

There's no way I would drive without regeneration and I've had the option on both my cars. And unless a person has some sort of physical impairment (or mental I suppose) it should just take a bit of practice to not make it jerky experience. Adapt people it's an improvement to the driving experience - you can do it!

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

I'm skeptical of the claim that EPA bureaucracy drove the removal of low regen. Did the EPA change their methodology in 2021? Or did Tesla's 2021 range increase come in part from this technicality? I haven't seen evidence of either.

Also, if the EPA is so close-minded why are all the other carmakers using paddle-triggered regen? Surely that'd be a dumb move when they are already lacking in EPA range.

Regardless, I never understood the purpose of low regen, it just makes the car harder to drive and makes passengers seasick when you switch back and forth between the throttle and brake. Plus it's just stupid to waste all that power and wear down your brakes for no reason.

I'd like to know why Telsa doesn't offer a "high regen" option. The performance model provides a regen slider that can go up to 0.3G which is a noticeable improvement over the standard 0.2G but it's only available in "track mode". I'd love to have 0.3G regen available full-time and apparently others would like the ability to decrease it. The hardware/software/UI is already developed and tested to do all of this, why can't we have it?

 

[drtimhill]

I'd like to know why Telsa doesn't offer a "high regen" option. The performance model provides a regen slider that can go up to 0.3G which is a noticeable improvement over the standard 0.2G but it's only available in "track mode". I'd love to have 0.3G regen available full-time and apparently others would like the ability to decrease it. The hardware/software/UI is already developed and tested to do all of this, why can't we have it?

I'm guessing here, but the difference here would surely be how quickly you can brake vs how much regen energy you can recover. A higher G means the car is recovering more power (energy per second), but the brake time will be shorter, so the total energy recovered may not be more (it may even be less, I'm not sure what the recovery curves look like, and that might indeed impact EPA).

(P.S. Had a good chuckle at your member name .. very clever! )

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

You're correct that a higher regen doesn't directly save energy, it only reduces the need for braking - which in turn saves energy.

But that's not the reason I'd like more regen. I believe the learning curve this car presents is not due to the regen, but due to the fact that the regen isn't strong enough to provide good control. The typical stop sign approach is very close to the 0.2G standard regen so there's a bit of technique needed to lift the pedal at just the right moment to slow to a stop at just the right position and many new drivers tend to stop short as a result. Personally I tend to go long and have to tap the brakes. With a little more regen it'd be more natural to feather the pedal and maintain control rather than lifting completely and it would make for a smoother more relaxing drive.

 

[ck00027]

I was planning on purchasing a 3 or Y next year. Without the option to lower the regen, there's a good chance it will be a deal breaker. I will be 70 then and motion issues aren't going to get any better.