Wildly inaccurate range on long trips

[Peter Lucas]

I agree that Tesla rated range is rarely achieved in real-world driving. Still, the numbers provide a useful benchmark for comparison. If one Tesla has higher rated range than another, then there’s likely a proportional difference in real-world range..."

I expect a little more than you do from advertised range. And from advertised battery capacity. Off by 5% to 10% would be an acceptable fib. But 20% to 30% less than advertised is unacceptably deceitful.
Worse than a bad estimation of range is that the diminished range is at least partly due to a diminished battery capacity which the trip data is designed to conceal. But you can figure it out. After a trip, compare kWh used to battery percent used. (Divide kWh used by battery portion used). For example on my 90D if I drive from 80% battery to 30% battery (i.e. I use 50% of my usable battery capacity), the energy used is 36 kWh. If 50% of my battery capacity is 36 kWh, the entirety of my battery capacity is 72 kWh. (36/0.5). I have done this simple calculation for a great variety of charge states. The results repeatedly show a battery capacity (usable battery capacity) of 72-73 kWh. And yet, my full charge range is still showing 270-280 miles. As if the car were new.

 

[Rocky_H]

I expect a little more than you do from advertised range. And from advertised battery capacity. Off by 5% to 10% would be an acceptable fib. But 20% to 30% less than advertised is unacceptably deceitful.

I expect (and a rational person would) that if driven in exact EPA testing conditions, it will yield the published EPA results. And it does.

I'm thinking someone still hasn't explained (or you haven't grasped) the big difference that heating is going to make in this evaluation of electric vehicles. This is January, after all. When I first got my Tesla six years ago, people asked me how much the range was reduced when running air conditioning. That was the one thing they could think of that would be some extra loss of efficiency and extra load on the system. It was entirely shocking to them for me to explain how the air conditioning load was a little noticeable but tiny, whereas the heating load was several times that much.

People who are only used to gas cars all of their lives don't even think of how they are wasting two thirds of the energy of the gasoline out the tailpipe and radiator as waste heat. They have to be built with extensive systems to get rid of all that heat to keep the regular operation of the engine from melting itself down!!! So in the winter time, to heat the interior cabin, takes no extra energy at all. You divert some of the waste, and the heating is free!

Electric motors are so highly efficient, they have very little waste heat at all. So if you want to warm you up and all the air inside the cabin? That's just like running a pretty beefy electric space heater. And if you were doing that in your house, you would normally be consciously aware that you are using a high draw electric appliance, and it's going to suck some significant juice.

So I see from the way you're still talking about "advertised range" that you don't seem to get that the ratings and numbers are not including the heating values, since EPA procedures never include that. So the displays are not just MILES. That same battery has to supply everything, so in the winter, it is MILES + HEAT, and those are both significant usages.

So if this were May or June, you might not even be asking this question.

 

[Peter Lucas]

I expect (and a rational person would) that if driven in exact EPA testing conditions, it will yield the published EPA results. And it does.

I'm thinking someone still hasn't explained (or you haven't grasped) the big difference that heating is going to make in this evaluation of electric vehicles. This is January, after all. When I first got my Tesla six years ago, people asked me how much the range was reduced when running air conditioning. That was the one thing they could think of that would be some extra loss of efficiency and extra load on the system. It was entirely shocking to them for me to explain how the air conditioning load was a little noticeable but tiny, whereas the heating load was several times that much.

People who are only used to gas cars all of their lives don't even think of how they are wasting two thirds of the energy of the gasoline out the tailpipe and radiator as waste heat. They have to be built with extensive systems to get rid of all that heat to keep the regular operation of the engine from melting itself down!!! So in the winter time, to heat the interior cabin, takes no extra energy at all. You divert some of the waste, and the heating is free!

Electric motors are so highly efficient, they have very little waste heat at all. So if you want to warm you up and all the air inside the cabin? That's just like running a pretty beefy electric space heater. And if you were doing that in your house, you would normally be consciously aware that you are using a high draw electric appliance, and it's going to suck some significant juice.

So I see from the way you're still talking about "advertised range" that you don't seem to get that the ratings and numbers are not including the heating values, since EPA procedures never include that. So the displays are not just MILES. That same battery has to supply everything, so in the winter, it is MILES + HEAT, and those are both significant usages.

So if this were May or June, you might not even be asking this question.

Rocky H.:
My cars range reduction by about 20% occurred during ideal conditions. This means: 1) Little to no HVAC loads (about 65F ambient temps), 2) Very little altitude changes, and zero net altitude change, 3) Very little speeds above 65-70 mph, 4) No high acceleration starts. I am pretty sure that if my car were driven on any test route that could be called typical or normal driving that my car would come up short by about 20%. At other times of the year, or when driving faster on the highway, my range is even worse. There may be many Teslas that do have the energy capacity to meet the advertised range. But mine does not. I doubt mine is the only one that comes up so short. And Tesla considers this normal.
Your little lecture about the energy cost of heating indicates that you live in northern latitudes and have forgotten that many of us live where the HVAC loads are near zero in the winter.