LadyOnikara
Member
I just realized that there is only one supercharger in our entire county. At least, I've only seen one listed.
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Wow. Which county?I just realized that there is only one supercharger in our entire county. At least, I've only seen one listed.
Oh wait. There might be more. I must only see the one because I always go the same places. lol! Found more on the Tesla website.Amador County in California.
Be sure to check out this thread where people hunt for Superchargers in California.Oh wait. There might be more. I must only see the one because I always go the same places. lol! Found more on the Tesla website.
That's ok. I consider Superchargers for use away from home, not near home. I've never used any of the ones near my home except, perhaps to test them out. Same applies for the many in my county.I just realized that there is only one supercharger in our entire county. At least, I've only seen one listed.
I read the thread and have found that you saw more,I just realized that there is only one supercharger in our entire county. At least, I've only seen one listed.
I assume all these "third-party" DCFC stations will SEAMLESSLY INTEGRATE with the Tesla Nav and Plug and Play system? Am guessing they would add another button to toggle them ON/OFF. i.e. I only want to see Tesla SuperChargers, or do I want to see only "non-Tesla" chargers?
Unlikely. Tesla has been listing third-party DCFC stations in Europe for a while now, but they have never implemented the CCS Plug&Charge protocol. (So you have to activate the chargers and pay some other way.) They may eventually implement P&C, but I haven't heard any rumors of it.I assume all these "third-party" DCFC stations will SEAMLESSLY INTEGRATE with the Tesla Nav and Plug and Play system?
I saw something like this on my latest road trip. I was staying in Hanford, CA, and I thought there were zero CCS chargers. Then I spotted two of them right across the street from my parking lot. I immediately went over to see if I could get my CCS-to-NACS adapter working. I immediately got a taste of CCS woes. These were Loop EV chargers with Paymentech card readers. I could not read the card reader on the first charger in the direct sunlight. Someone had scratched it up as well, but it appears that stall was simply down. I tried the 2nd one and while I still couldn't read the display, a blue light came on and there was some beeping. But my car never charged, throwing out a cable connection fault in one error message. Never got a charge, never figured out why. Tried the Loop EV app to get things going, but while I received an identification code on my phone, the app simply errored out when I tried to put the code in. Never got the app to respond. Later on I came upon a Chargepoint charger (7kW), and while I had to use an app to get it going, at least the app worked fine and I got a little J1772 charging.For those away from home travelling temporarily and access to only non-Tesla charging, it can be a serious issue. My daughter is in such a situation and the Tesla Supercharger is due in February, under construction. The only DCFC is a pathetic EVGO at 50-30 kw. A year ago we did a test charge and I had to call EVGO to get it to start. A year later, back in the came locale, she still has to use the EVGO. Good news, seems non-Tesla charging is getting better as now using EVgo is a seamless experience for her, no more phone calls. Its still pathetic at typically 30kw, its the only DCFC in town.
point is, its getting better for non-Tesla charging
We are spoiled by TeslaI saw something like this on my latest road trip. I was staying in Hanford, CA, and I thought there were zero CCS chargers. Then I spotted two of them right across the street from my parking lot. I immediately went over to see if I could get my CCS-to-NACS adapter working. I immediately got a taste of CCS woes. These were Loop EV chargers with Paymentech card readers. I could not read the card reader on the first charger in the direct sunlight. Someone had scratched it up as well, but it appears that stall was simply down. I tried the 2nd one and while I still couldn't read the display, a blue light came on and there was some beeping. But my car never charged, throwing out a cable connection fault in one error message. Never got a charge, never figured out why. Tried the Loop EV app to get things going, but while I received an identification code on my phone, the app simply errored out when I tried to put the code in. Never got the app to respond. Later on I came upon a Chargepoint charger (7kW), and while I had to use an app to get it going, at least the app worked fine and I got a little J1772 charging.
I would argue that we Tesla is the minimum standard all chargers should meet, and the others are sub-standard.We are spoiled by Tesla
The biggest problem with Current and future Super Charger network is the Ellectrical infrastructure in most of US does not supply enough support to expand the charging network fast.
What do you mean by “support”? Subsiidies?
I read through the latest version of the Arizona NEVI document. It gives various goals and does quite a thorough job of listing stakeholders., including utility companies. It also has a table of the power availability for each proposed locations. (Also, it lists every single public charger in the state by its unique ID.) I was looking specifically for mentions of the really poor, rural areas like the Navajo reservation. It does list highway 160 across the rez as an Alternative Fuel Corridor, but doesn't put it into the plan until the 2024-2025 update. But the document does have some interesting verbiage about poor, rural areas to the effect of arguing that the easy/profitable locations have all been taken already, and there are a number of locations that must be built, but which can't be economically justified. Not sure about the argument for someone to own the locations, but it does hint at simply having to have the state or feds foot the bill. There were a couple of tables where nobody responded from the local side, so there's a lot of work to be done to get chargers in places like Kayenta, or Springerville or most any rural town with pitiful infrastructure but which needs something to allow traffic to get through.I believe Jim in Houston meant support in terms of electrical capacity. Some distribution circuits (especially in rural areas) are still 4160Y2400V from the substation to the proposed supercharger location. An eight stall V3 supercharger needs 500KVA which is about 25% of the total capacity of such a circuit. If the circuit is near capacity (and most 4160Y2400V circuits are at or near capacity) then adding a new 500KVA service requires increasing the voltage of the circuit (typically to 12,470Y7200V) which involves replacing the transformer (often a pair of transformers) in the substation and every pole top and pad mount transformer between the substation and the proposed supercharger location, then installing a set of step down transformers immediately after the supercharger to avoid replacing the pole top and pad mount transformers along the rest of the distribution circuit. That’s a huge job and most utilities would try to make Tesla pay for it. In some cases it might be possible to instead re-conductor the circuit with larger conductors from the substation to the supercharger location, but most 4160Y2400V circuits already have the largest practical conductors from the substation to the first large customers, so it’s either raise the voltage or install a whole new distribution circuit from the substation. In some cases the substation doesn’t have space to install larger transformers. These sorts of distribution circuit upgrades could easily cost a lot more than a supercharger. Another option would be for Tesla to install a huge solar canopy and a few megapacks, but that would be even more expensive.
It’s not rare for 12,470Y7200V distribution circuits to be at or near capacity. They can be upgraded to voltages as high as 34,500Y19,920V, but most utilities don’t use distribution voltages that high.
I’m confident that many proposed supercharger locations have been rejected because the electrical capacity wasn’t available (without expensive upgrades). BTW, Tesla has the same issue siting service centers, which usually require 750KVA or more, compared to traditional stealerships which are often 100KVA or 150KVA.
I have not read this document, but I’m confident that the reason at least some of these locations, probably many if not all of these locations, can’t be economically justified is that the electricity distribution circuit from the substation to the location doesn’t have enough available capacity to add another 500KVA and so the distribution circuit from the substation would have to be rebuilt.I read through the latest version of the Arizona NEVI document. It gives various goals and does quite a thorough job of listing stakeholders., including utility companies. It also has a table of the power availability for each proposed locations. (Also, it lists every single public charger in the state by its unique ID.) I was looking specifically for mentions of the really poor, rural areas like the Navajo reservation. It does list highway 160 across the rez as an Alternative Fuel Corridor, but doesn't put it into the plan until the 2024-2025 update. But the document does have some interesting verbiage about poor, rural areas to the effect of arguing that the easy/profitable locations have all been taken already, and there are a number of locations that must be built, but which can't be economically justified. Not sure about the argument for someone to own the locations, but it does hint at simply having to have the state or feds foot the bill. There were a couple of tables where nobody responded from the local side, so there's a lot of work to be done to get chargers in places like Kayenta, or Springerville or most any rural town with pitiful infrastructure but which needs something to allow traffic to get through.
Thanks for posting this information. Very informative. In my area many “super” Wawa gas stations/convenience stores have been upgrading and installing SC stations, especially those closer to major limited access highways. One Wawa in particular hasn’t done so and I happened to catch the manager one day and I asked him why his location hasn’t done so when several others have in our general area - he explicitly said that the power infrastructure won’t support a SC station and it would require a major financial outlay to do so, which just didn’t make sense for his location.I believe Jim in Houston meant support in terms of electrical capacity. Some distribution circuits (especially in rural areas) are still 4160Y2400V from the substation to the proposed supercharger location. An eight stall V3 supercharger needs 500KVA which is about 25% of the total capacity of such a circuit. If the circuit is near capacity (and most 4160Y2400V circuits are at or near capacity) then adding a new 500KVA service requires increasing the voltage of the circuit (typically to 12,470Y7200V) which involves replacing the transformer (often a pair of transformers) in the substation and every pole top and pad mount transformer between the substation and the proposed supercharger location, then installing a set of step down transformers immediately after the supercharger to avoid replacing the pole top and pad mount transformers along the rest of the distribution circuit. That’s a huge job and most utilities would try to make Tesla pay for it. In some cases it might be possible to instead re-conductor the circuit with larger conductors from the substation to the supercharger location, but most 4160Y2400V circuits already have the largest practical conductors from the substation to the first large customers, so it’s either raise the voltage or install a whole new distribution circuit from the substation. In some cases the substation doesn’t have space to install larger transformers. These sorts of distribution circuit upgrades could easily cost a lot more than a supercharger. Another option would be for Tesla to install a huge solar canopy and a few megapacks, but that would be even more expensive.
It’s not rare for 12,470Y7200V distribution circuits to be at or near capacity. They can be upgraded to voltages as high as 34,500Y19,920V, but most utilities don’t use distribution voltages that high.
I’m confident that many proposed supercharger locations have been rejected because the electrical capacity wasn’t available (without expensive upgrades). BTW, Tesla has the same issue siting service centers, which usually require 750KVA or more, compared to traditional stealerships which are often 100KVA or 150KVA.
Here is the 2023 Update document. I recommend skimming it to see what is in it - it is quite complete. https://azdot.gov/sites/default/fil...e-charging-infrastructure-deployment-plan.pdfI have not read this document, but I’m confident that the reason at least some of these locations, probably many if not all of these locations, can’t be economically justified is that the electricity distribution circuit from the substation to the location doesn’t have enough available capacity to add another 500KVA and so the distribution circuit from the substation would have to be rebuilt.
BTW, one more reason why a distribution circuit might not have enough capacity is that in suburban and rural areas of North America, distribution circuits leave the substation as three-phase circuits and eventually branch out in three (or more) different directions as single-phase circuits. If a location is served only by one or two phases, then the circuit would have to be rebuilt from the location back toward the substation at least to where it branched from three-phase and possibility all the way back to the substation.