1.5 Roadster Tire Thread

[Tex EV]

The SC just let me know that Tesla has some AD07s in inventory. They won't install anything non-OEM. Might just need to bite the bullet and pay full price. The previous owner of my car put Continentals on it which they suspect are causing the steering wheel to shake at highway speeds.

 

[supersnoop]

The SC just let me know that Tesla has some AD07s in inventory. They won't install anything non-OEM. Might just need to bite the bullet and pay full price. The previous owner of my car put Continentals on it which they suspect are causing the steering wheel to shake at highway speeds.

Have you tried getting them balanced? Run it up to Discount Tire and see what they can do. Unless the tires are excessively worn, shaking is most often a balancing problem.

 

[Tex EV]

Have you tried getting them balanced? Run it up to Discount Tire and see what they can do. Unless the tires are excessively worn, shaking is most often a balancing problem.

Probably should've done this first, but I was ready to get new tires anyway. The Continentals are all-season, which I'm guessing means I'm not getting the most out of the car with them.

Update on the AD07 situation... I spoke with a Tire Rack rep directly, and they do have fronts in stock and are receiving more. Said the website was reflecting an older part number. Sorry for the false alarm!

 

[augkuo]

I had a bent wheel (probably from a pot hole!) that also caused a lot of shaking so you can check that as well -

 

[wiztecy]

Doc@TireRack was kind enough to give us some insight into the Yokohama AD07 situation, he gave me the ok to repost our converstation. Thanks Doc!

Me:
Hi Doc how's it going? We Roadster owners are curious if Yokohama will continue to make the AD07 tires, in particular the Lotus/Tesla size 16"/17" combo? Tire Rack and Discount Tire are out of stock on these and its worrisome since the 1.5 Roadsters can't 'learn' a new tire size, so we're stuck with them.

Doc:
As it stands right now, Yokohama has not indicated any plans to drop the OE Lotus spec. tire in 175/55R16 although they have stopped production on the same model for 225/45R17. We have a "revised" version of the AD07 (we designate as v2) for the rear tire size, and although Yokohama feels they two versions should not be mixed (in pairs) on the same car Tire Rack feels that these two versions of the AD07 would be closer to one another that anything else. If I had to guess I would say that even the V2 tires would be discontinued within the next few years but I could never give you any specifics.

While have not heard any feedback (positive or negative), we have had a few folks try 195/50R16 and 225/45R7 for reference. That opens a few more options, including the Yokohama AD048

 

[Tex EV]

This is what I ordered from Tire Rack yesterday:
175/55R-16 YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD07 LTS LOTUS
225/45R-17 YOKOHAMA ADVAN NEOVA AD07 LTS 2 LOTUS SL

Was wondering what the significance of "LTS 2" on the rears was. So this is the v2 Lotus spec tire. Would've just gone with the AD08s, but the local SC is installing them and will only install OEM... which technically these aren't since they're a revised design? We'll see how it goes when they arrive tomorrow .

 

[FANGO]

I run AD07 LTS in the front, AD08R in the rear on my 1.5 and am quite happy with the rear tires. I wouldn't really mind if they stopped producing the rears since the AD08Rs are a lot better it seems.

 

[tvuolo]

Hi guys,
The set of tires that came with my used roadster were severely cupped on the insides of the rear tires. I had Tesla look at the suspension, no issues, and balance the tires. I took those tires to the track and trashed them. I put 4 new AD07s on, and had them balanced & installed at my local tire shop. It was nice & smooth for 8K miles then the inside of the rears were cupped again. I bought 2 rear tires, had one of the wheels fixed (it was bent from a pothole), and had it aligned at the Lamborghini shop (the Lotus shop wanted $700!). It was nice and smooth until recently. Now the rears are cupped on the inside, yet again. It's been 8K miles almost to the mile. I'm down to 4/32" so it's probably getting close to replacement time.

My question is... What can I do to prevent the cupping? The noise becomes awful. I feel like I could get another 2000 miles before hitting 2/32" and if it weren't for the cupping, they'd be wearing quite evenly.

Other info:
I take my roadster to autocross events about 4 times per year. I'm not opposed to a less aggressive alignment, since my times are not limited by the car, but by the driver.

I have the adjustable suspension. For daily driving:
Normal air pressure.
F2 / R2
Front swaybar: loosest (end of bar).
Rear: mid

For track:
Normal air pressure
F7 / R8
Front: loosest
Rear: mid

Thanks for any insight.

 

[strider]

Not sure if the 1.5s are different but my 2.5 does this too though I get more mileage (just street driving/commuting). I chalk it up to rear toe and negative rear camber settings.

 

[wiztecy]

Its due to negative camber. What what where your before and after camber settings from the Lambo alignment shop?

You can run the tires down pretty well if you just keep an eye on the inside edge on both tires. I have my extra set of tires ready at a point I know that the tire is ready to be switched, right when I start to see the second layer of the tire, right before the belts. My rear negative camber is at -2.5 and my fronts are -1.5. I'm not giving up my handling for tire wear at all. I'm still able to get 12k+ miles out of my rear AD0x's running an aggressive negative camber.

Augie set his away from being negative (towards positive), his numbers are on the forum somewhere, and he was able to get I believe 30k from the rears (running super sports).

 

[tvuolo]

Its due to negative camber. What what where your before and after camber settings from the Lambo alignment shop?

Front:

Before:

Camber: -0.1, -0.2
Toe: -0.10, -0.18
Caster: 3.8, 3.4​

After:

Camber: -0.2, -0.2
Toe: 0.00, 0.00
Caster: 4.0, 3.7​

Rear:

Before:

Camber: -2.2, -2.0
Toe: 0.14, 0.39
Thrust: -0.12​

After:

Camber: -2.0, -1.8
Toe: 0.21, 0.24
Thrust: -0.02​

So I read a bit about cupped tires and it says it's due to bouncing. Should I run my shocks stiffer for daily driving? What do you guys typically use for daily driving?

Should I switch over to a Michelin Super Sport in the rear? They are $8 more, but should last two to three times longer.

 

[wiztecy]

It depends if you have "cupped" or just one side / inside wear. I get inside wear from my aggressive negative camber, not cupping. Cupping is from a bent suspension part, bad ball joint, way out of balanced tire, bent rim, etc:

HOW TO READ TIRE WEAR

If you have any pics of your tire wear that'll help.

Here's a pic (passenger rear) of my one-sided wear. More if you follow the link:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1454009/

...Also did you ask the Lambo shop to change your caster? Alignment shops don't mess with the caster typically since you have to remove and mess with the spacers with the front upper A-Arm. Great service if they did, more caster gives you more negative camber while cornering while the suspension is compressing:

Front:
Before:
Camber: -0.1, -0.2
Toe: -0.10, -0.18
Caster: 3.8, 3.4
After:
Camber: -0.2, -0.2
Toe: 0.00, 0.00
Caster: 4.0, 3.7


I also see your rear toe was out of whack. Front toe I try to be as close to zero (which the Lambo guys did right), an incorrect toe setting will wear the sides your tires faster:

Rear:
Before:
Camber: -2.2, -2.0
Toe: 0.14, 0.39
Thrust: -0.12
After:
Camber: -2.0, -1.8
Toe: 0.21, 0.24
Thrust: -0.02

 

[tvuolo]

Below is a picture of the rear passenger tire. I didn't take a very good picture, but you can sort of see the triangle shaped wear pattern. Every other nub is worn down. On flat smooth pavement it feels like driving a jeep with knobby tires. I'll call the Lambo shop and see if they can balance and mount some new tires (yellow dot to valve stem as last time), re-align (maybe I hit something), and check for any damaged suspension components. I'll have them make sure the wheels are round again and fix if not. I can also stiffen up the back a few notches. Anything I'm missing?

I'm thinking about getting some Pilot Super Sports for my daily driving. I hear they are nearly as good, but last longer. I'll keep my current AD07s and swap for my next few autocross events until they are completely worn.

 

[ML Auto]

Too much rear toe causes cupping. Your new adjustment is on the high side of the stock spec. You will get better tire life at 0.16' each side (min spec). Tesla kept the factory Lotus spec but failed to take into account the extra power in the Roadster. Under acceleration the rear suspension flexes to create even more toe-in, and that is worst time to be out of alignment-when the tires are already at maximum traction. Increased rear toe gives more stability at high speeds, but that is also different between the Lotus and the Tesla.

I currently run Pilot Super Sports on the rear, and they have a little less traction then the A048, so probably similar to the AD07.

 

[tvuolo]

Hey MLAUTO and Wiz... I got the rear Michelin Pilot Super Sport XLs 225/45ZR-17 balanced, installed, and the rear toe-in set to 0.17 on each side. The front AD07's are still in great shape. The numbers now are:
Front:
Camber: -0.2 / -0.3
Caster: 3.9 / 3.7
Toe: -0.04 / -0.01
Total toe: -0.04
Steer ahead: -0.02

Rear:
Camber: -1.9 / -2.0
Toe: 0.17 / 0.17
Total toe: 0.33
Thrust angle: 0.03

Suspension: Front 3, Rear 4. I used to run 2 & 2 so this changed, too.
Sway bar: Front - end of bar, Rear - middle hole. I've been using this setting for over a year and love it.

The car is very quiet on the road, and very smooth. However... If there is any sort of groove in the road the car gets thrown around. Before it was always extremely solidly planted and predictable. Now I feel like I'm constantly battling the steering to keep it straight. any ideas on what would cause this? Thanks!

 

[Msjulie]

I'm surprised by the toe value for the fronts but that doesn't mean much maybe, I'm used to front wheel drivers...

 

[thefortunes]

Hey MLAUTO and Wiz... I got the rear Michelin Pilot Super Sport XLs 225/45ZR-17 balanced, installed, and the rear toe-in set to 0.17 on each side. The front AD07's are still in great shape. The numbers now are:
Front:
Camber: -0.2 / -0.3
Caster: 3.9 / 3.7
Toe: -0.04 / -0.01
Total toe: -0.04
Steer ahead: -0.02

Rear:
Camber: -1.9 / -2.0
Toe: 0.17 / 0.17
Total toe: 0.33
Thrust angle: 0.03

Suspension: Front 3, Rear 4. I used to run 2 & 2 so this changed, too.
Sway bar: Front - end of bar, Rear - middle hole. I've been using this setting for over a year and love it.

The car is very quiet on the road, and very smooth. However... If there is any sort of groove in the road the car gets thrown around. Before it was always extremely solidly planted and predictable. Now I feel like I'm constantly battling the steering to keep it straight. any ideas on what would cause this? Thanks!

I'm not an alignment expert (so I didn't even check your numbers vs spec) but I know when I was having that issue I had worn tie rod inner ball joints that were allowing the alignment to actually "change" over any bump, groove, etc... The rear end felt "squirrely." Replacement (by a local alignment shop) fixed the issue. Others (Henry was one) have had the same issue.

Now I am assuming that whoever installed the tires and adjusted your alignment would have noticed if you had a problem, but it doesn't hurt to check. Just jack up each side (one at a time), grab the rear tire at 9 and 3 and try to move toe-in and toe-out. If it moves AT ALL, that is your problem.

 

[wiztecy]

I always set my front toe to 0.00 for each side of the front. Having the toe up there will cause it to track and follow grooves. Spec I believe is -0.02 to 0.00 so you're about -0.02 out of spec on one side I believe you driver's and +0.01 for the passenger. Your steer ahead also being at 0.02 may indicate you're steering wheel is not centered, that I believe should be 0.00. I'm very picky with my numbers and alignment personally. Do you have your before and after numbers? How was it before you had the alignment?

 

[ecarfan]

Just an update: tirerack.com appears to have AD07's front and rear in stock right now http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?cameFrom=SelectTireSizeRedirect&tireIndex=0&autoMake=Tesla&autoYear=2009&autoModel=Roadster&autoModClar=&frontWidth=175/&frontRatio=55&frontDiameter=16&frontSortCode=44590&rearWidth=225/&rearRatio=45&rearDiameter=17&rearSortCode=49650&skipOver=true&minSpeedRating=V&minLoadRating=S

I need new rears so will be ordering some in 2 weeks when I am back home from a holiday break. Much cheaper than the quote I just got from Tesla for two AD07's mounted and balanced for about $760, if I remember correctly.

Tirerack also has the AD08's for about $50 more http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...eModel=ADVAN+Neova+AD08+R&partnum=245WR7AD08R

If they will last at least a third longer than the AD07's that would be worth it. But I don't think they will. I know that @wiztecy posted earlier this year that he got about 3K more miles from the AD08's compared to the AD07's, so about 25% more. Maybe I should consider them.

Last June I posted this upthread:

At the shareholder meeting, when @sclasner asked if the rest of the 3.0 upgrade package items would be released, JB mentioned that Tesla was looking at more than one manufacturer for new tire choices for the Roadster. But he did not provide any details. ALl I can say is that I am hopeful that Tesla will give us more tire choices, including for the 1.5's, in the near future.

And still nothing from Tesla about a new lower rolling resistance tire choice for the Roadster. Sigh...

 

[supersnoop]

If they will last at least a third longer than the AD07's that would be worth it. But I don't think they will. I know that @wiztecy posted earlier this year that he got about 3K more miles from the AD08's compared to the AD07's, so about 25% more. Maybe I should consider them.

That's about a 50% improvement for me. My rears only seem to last about 6k miles. I've only put 16k on the car, and I'm on my third or fourth set of rear tires.